Which Elements of Warhammer Should we LEAVE in 2023?

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hello I'm Jeff hello I'm Patrick and welcome Happy New Year folks happy New
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Year Jeff Happy New Year to you as well Pat did you have a good festive season uh yes it was it was relatively quiet
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um went back to Liverpool B it HED it down the entire time I I saw videos of
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Manchester uh from Byron actually of trees just yeah yeah Manchester has a
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really bad time with it yeah and um and the weather was bad hey some of the um
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some of the uh some of the our family are based in Manchester and they were
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struggling to get about a bit as well yeah I'm the right all time of it yeah here we go well with along with bad
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weather uh I have asked our wonderful Patron Community what they would like to
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remain in 2023 H when it comes to the Hobby well hopefully the main answer is us
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[Music] we're not allowed to to be in 2024 yeah
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you go you had your year you had a good run see you yeah so I made a post called
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get in the sea um and uh we we've done get in the
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sea or get in some flooded part of Manchester yes yeah poor old Manchester
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I hope they're doing okay um so I ask people to tell me their some of their
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least favorite bits of hobby that they just wish would would either get thrown in the sea or remain in the
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past um and I thought we could discuss them I think we can I Think We're Men of enough caliber for that yeah yeah um and
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we've got one from Ricky uh who starts off with controversial oh go on drop
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yourself in I know yeah controversial but Warhammer fantasy slash the old
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world there's a reason why it got put down and all the old players still have
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their old armies and rules nothing stopped them playing
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it he makes a good point yeah he especially makes a good point because
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the main thing if you said what shows that this is only a partially good idea
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is that it's not a complete range refresh no if anything if anything to me
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feels almost like the people making it haven't got the confidence in it is the
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fact that they're not plowing the money into making a brand new Range yeah
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there's some new stuff everything's got new stuff but there's a lot of stuff in there that's getting on so there's got to be a rules refresh I would imagine
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yeah I would assume there is yeah um I know that the boxes have gone up for pre-order yes I've seen them yeah uh at
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the time of recording what a couple of days ago Saturday um yeah I'm not sure it's it's
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an interesting one I can understand their point of view I guess the other point of view is um it was a well- Lov
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game by I guess quite quite a lot of people not as many as 40K uh one would
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imagine um and if that is someone's favorite game great for them that there's new
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Miniatures yeah I like people to be happy well don't get me wrong I think the idea that you are bringing back yeah
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let's let's do away with the word back for a minute that you're bringing in rank and file infantry Cavalry gaming
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yeah um which is something that we games workshops and I had for quite a while yeah and but it's not the funny it's not
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something I've heard anybody massively screaming for and I think all of the people who were sad about age uh about
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Warhammer fantasy going mm have had a quite a long time to vent their spleen now and I would imagine they've theyve
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vented it and packed in or they vented it and as you said as Ricky said carried
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on playing with what they already had there's still some people out there who still love Third Edition 4K and and
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still play that you know yeah I think if I felt like the launch of it was
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bringing massively new um un I hadn't previously
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existed then I could and it may do because this is early days but if it
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gone bang bratonia boxes all brand new things new units that have never existed before you go this is rebuilding from
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the ground up something something that has existed before but it's going at it
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from scratch straight the way up yeah in the same way of um Legion imperialis MH
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it's existed before they made little Ros before they've made little Marines before but this is all brand new yeah
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whether it's stand the test of time I don't know but so it's interesting to think well
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you you're rehashing and repackaging thing so I think Ricky might be right I really
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fascinated to see how well it does and we'll get to know like quite soon yeah I
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think we will yeah I like I'm not excited for it I'm not going to buy any of the kits I'm not going to play it
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well I said to my mate Tim he was a bit like oh especially because the thing is
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with hey Tim especially because the fact with Tim um he still he bretonian who won the
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armies he played and he still got a lot of it and he said to me what do you think about it and I said to him if
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you've got enough for Good Guys bad guys I will play it with you but I said but I'm not sticking my hand in my pocket
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for anyway no and I get the impression from sort of Tim's opinion on it he's
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not sticking his s pocket for any of it either because he's got most of it yeah very interesting so before we move on to
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something else Warhammer old world getting the
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sea yes I don't think it's going to work I don't think it's survive yeah yeah I
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say keep it keep it out the sea for for those people that are happy let them be
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happy congratulations yeah you know if you if it's your bag as I was say with Anan on the show if it's your bag and
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you're happy I'm I'm pleased for you but I'm saying getting this here based
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on the grounds I don't think it's going to be successful not that I have any dislike for it yeah but if you AR
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producing a brand new range for everything it doesn't strike me as a great deal of confidence in your own
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product yeah yeah that's what I would say for that perfect there we go love it
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um we have another one brittle 3D printer resin I 3D print a lot and after
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I had a printed mini shatter the night before I left for a tournament in another country after a dice fell onto
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it from 5 cm high oh I'm bad for I feel bad for
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laughing but that's really bad I finally ordered a flexible resin and haven't had a mini break
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since well you're more the man for this than me cuz I haven't printed anything out and I haven't really used much in
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the way of resin yeah but you you so I have started 3D printing uh and shout
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out to to Ross from fa Hammer uh cuz I'm using his wargamer resin uh which is
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sort of formulated to be like as as miniature Gamers and all
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that sort of stuff we're used to games work short plastic yeah and um the the
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resin looks and behaves in a like obviously it's a little bit different but uh it's quite it is quite hard but
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it's they they seem to have got a really really good like it's it's firm it's easy to clean up because I think
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flexible stuff yeah you like your knife kind of like skitters all over the place um so the jump from plastic to wargamer
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resin has been really nice and really straightforward uh but the Miniatures are actually quite like it's robust
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resin as well so it's not super brittle um so I I really like that
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resin and I I think maybe that's kind of like the as I I say with all of the
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confidence of a very inexperienced 3D printer person um that yeah like
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flexible resin is probably pretty good you know for posting stuff super brittle
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stuff like yeah that can absolutely get in the sea um I I think it's just very
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unpleasant to work with I've got I've got resin parts that came from um
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Archie's Forge yep um cheese Forge oh cheese Forge is great I've got um I've
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got a a replacement um a replacement Space Marine Banner which replaces the
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one that came in the banner Bearer from dark Imperium but the banner is pretty much identical
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but it's all in boss with black Templar iconography oh lovely and you know if
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you know if if you handed me it sprayed y I wouldn't be able to tell you the difference no between that and the
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original one it's maybe fractionally the way but and that's really good and that's
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obviously been 3D printed resin there's not a mark on it and but my you know I'm
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only I've only unlike you I've only had that as the as the as the end consumer I
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haven't been involved ing creation but that's been pretty good and the shoulder pads have been nice and stuff so yeah
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what I've come into contact with which I've used on my own I generally think it's been pretty good yeah yeah so I
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think we're both in agreement yeah brittle 3D printer resin in the sea one no it's bad for the environment um in
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the bin in the bin in the bin in a a resin appropriate bin yeah yes in the special resin bin yes yes that doesn't
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uh seep into the water course yeah uh so Richard asks uh whatever it is that
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makes my bills SL paint pile keep growing not being able to paint all the
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cool new stuff that you want uh not being able to paint all the cool new
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bracket models probably that you want to uh and shouldn't feel like failing so what is getting in the sea is
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his wallet getting in the sea or is lack of time getting in the sea or or is
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self-loathing for not being able to get everything done getting in the sea if it's s if it's yourself Lo that can get
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in the sea absolutely get in the sea you buy and you paint what you want uh and and I guess this is if it relates to
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well Games Workshop Miniatures I mean k the you see the list of miniature of the
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year at Workshop just how long it is I know it's Madness um and they all came
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out and everything as is the way every every week every two weeks it's here's
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the cool new thing and you're like oh buy that and the fomo marketing and all that sort of stuff um it's tough isn't
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it because you want to say you want to say you don't have to run out and buy it
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you don't have to go and get it the minute it's out get to it when you get to it but you know directly behind you
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is soul shackle how long ago did that come out and you're still trying to get your hands on our bities now is
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ridiculously difficult so sometimes I think of rushing out and getting it when it's readily available well when it's
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available at the beginning I can understand why people do it because because at the moment Games Workshop BL
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them the their stock control isn't working very well so but ultimately you know if you're
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buying the brand new thing and then you just stick it on the shelf and you know it's going to be a year before you get round to it so don't buy it yeah I I I
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and I I've absolutely Fallen foul to this uh being like the cool new thing
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can't wait to paint that goes on the Shelf forget about it and and there's stuff I bought two years ago that I haven't even opened and then the next
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thing you know the next cool new thing is going sitting on top of that one still unpainted yeah so um I think I
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think lots of things can get in SE um I think yeah yeah being uh I think have
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some have some have some goals I think if you if you don't necessarily have a
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goal in mind like if I'm like oh I'm going to paint an orc Army and that is my goal like I'm well I'm painting custodis at the moment should have scor
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me that I'm painting a custodis army and that is my goal yeah I'm not interested in buying anything else um because I
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don't want to until that's done and then I'm going to move on to some Orcs so what can get to see is self Lo and fomo
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yes they can join hands and running together the SE which which Coast what's the most which is the one
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i' least that top one off the north top of Scotland they can get in the coast there yeah all the self
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lothing yeah they can pick that up on the oil rigs yeah cuz that's what you want you
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an oil rig three months and then suddenly you've accidentally fished up a load of self-loathing
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and fear of missing out you look at sure
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yeah think about if you've worked there long enough if you work are they in international waters no they'd have to
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be um no I think uh up there they're in Scottish Waters yeah in Scottish wat so you couldn't be because I know if you
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work at see for a certain amount of time of the year you don't pay tax um but
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then if they're still working in Scotland then I guess it's well paid yeah I saw a Tik Tok of uh like rope
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access guys underneath an oil rig and all the waves coming up and and one guy
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in like full scuba kit like welding and then he's underwater and then he's not and he's like that's a job I've got I've
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got a customer who literally literally as we see this is uh his name pinged up on my phone CU he's booked in for a
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herir and um he works on oil rigs but he works out in uh Africa oh wow and he
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does um six weeks on six weeks off yeah yeah but uh some of that he does the
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actual he's at the actual core bit of literally drilling the hole and
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following the surveys over where they're going to put it and stuff it's a really tells me about it I I understand about
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50% of what he tells me but the bit of it that he does tell that I do understand is really fasting yeah big
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old job interesting very good okay wonderful we've put quite a lot in see on that one um the way 40K has become a
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totally meta game where it's all about having the best army play for fun in all
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caps uh 40K can get in the sea oh oh AOS to are much more
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relaxed no I can't pull 40K in the sea and you you you still can play 40K for
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fun of course you can yeah you're just the tournament setting is is is perhaps
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more competitive the thing is they you know all of them things that shift and the meta changes and everything be based
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on tournament play you can completely utterly ignore that and you know if you
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want to play motorbikes and they're not very good but you enjoy the idea of motorbike screaming across the
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board uh you made Army then you play play what you want yeah you know what I
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mean yeah at the end of the day if you I know s's ridiculous but if you think of the
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high-end the high-end video games that are the ones that most make get the best
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trophies or the most money that are comp are play at Esports they don't have a huge bearing
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on what people decide to play at home you know what I mean you don't go well I really want to play this cool
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little one player Adventure game that's got no online because Cod makes all the money
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or this makes all the money or stend whatever it is makes all the money you
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play what you want don't you you don't you don't because there's people out there killing it in the Esports World it doesn't have a direct bearing on what
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you choose to play at home so 40K really shouldn't no I know it does and I
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understand that things do shift based around around uh the rules of of of the
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tournament bleed into the rules of the kitchen table I get that but um you can
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ignore that if you want to yeah yeah like I think um I think yeah for I don't
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think 40K has to get in the sea um at the risk of sounding like a an old
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school beauty pageant winner like what would you like to see World Peace uh
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between tournament Players and non- tournament Players so what I think in the comments I've seen and and like we
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guess it we've had on some people love tournaments some people loathe them yeah um and yeah maybe like I I haven't been
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playing 40K through previous editions I don't know the the development of it and
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and how the rules have affected it um how it's played and and that kind of
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stuff I don't know if tournaments are ruining 40K um like I say you can ignore
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it you know you can ignore it if you want to you ignore it and I think at the end I think W has a big bearing on it as
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you play across your kitchen table with your mate at the end of it no one gets hands of the
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trophy they do in my kitchen trophy um you know you know one
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gets hands to the trophy you just go good game shake hands and you go I might have got minced but that bit where their
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motorbikes came up on Your Flank and hammered your loads of tyranids that was a cool little moment for me that worked
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really well the rest of the game didn't go so well I think I think if you break 40K down into
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moments as opposed to just a whole thing yeah I don't think it needs to get in
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the sea but I do think um um I do think the marrying of the fun
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and the tournament should should be allowed to live separately yeah so no
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not in the sea for me okay yeah yeah I'm I'm inclined to agree I I think 40K uh
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doesn't doesn't need to get in the sea no
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um Cornish moose quality name uh says I would like
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40K meme culture to get in the
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bin but no really so many misconceptions about 40K law come from inaccurate memes
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also the near constant putting down of the zenos factions due to this meme culture contri contributes to their
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lesser popularity the same people you see moaning about the Imperial bias and
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wishing uh there was more variety will be calling Eldar players knife ears and
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Tow players fish heads sure 90% of it is meant as harmless fun but the other 10%
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take it too far so yeah get those meme Edge Lords in the
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I can appreciate that cuz I tell you what it must have got pretty Tyrant for all of those years if you I know it's
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got a little bit better for them now if you're a Dark Angels player oh you're a heretic oh you're cha I know everyone
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makes it I get it but yeah I'm on a um I'm on a 40K page on Facebook that seems
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to be utterly obsessed with large breasted female Elder yes and it's just
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10 and it's I don't mind memes to some deg agree but it's just like got into like the points of just becoming like
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you know maybe it's me maybe I should get rid of the psy think I'm not 14 you know and it's and it's just like I can
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every now and agone and it's you know it's a site that's mainly people putting up cool photographs of of 40K models and
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you know rules questions and all the rest of it but I am getting I am getting meme fatigue yeah I really am cuz I know
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like the the death core cre with the shovel that was a meme for a very long time oh yeah um and and I I personally
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think memes are great I think generally you can tell how healthy a community is by the
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volume of memes it means like it has a passionate fan base people want to create things about it um and and and
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something I think I've talked a little bit about before is uh like F1 uh like I
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follow it like off and on but when it all used to be on Sky uh um when Bernie
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Eon was running it he hated social media none of the teams had social media like which meant there weren't any sort of
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there were some YouTube channels about it but not very many and it was all very much like you're either inside the
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paddock or you're not yeah um whereas then they got bought out by an American
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Media company and they put the highlights on YouTube so I'm like amazing like I like I've never bought
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Sky um and I don't think I ever will but it's like it's there it's on YouTube and
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then the teams can have some personalities and the memes that have come from it and the Netflix documentary
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and every like Gunther Steiner I've got a t-shirt where he's like you do not [ __ ] smash my door um and it's amazing
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it's it's brilliant um so I think memes about Warhammer
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fantastic I think there will always be regardless of of where it is they'll they'll always be in humanity that that
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5% 10% 2% however much it is is that will take it too far um waram is quite
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like a niche sort of thing already and I know people have really sort of got on
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to that um that uh is it yrain the elder lady
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who saved Gillman and them being being a thing seual couple yeah yeah and oh
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there was a meme about like Angry Marines I think and they did a load of stuff to some Tow and that was weird um
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so does it get taken too far yes I I think where it why it gets taken too far
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or why people take it badly and I'm not the most thick skinned person in the world so I do get this to some degree
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and it is a little bit of going well just ignore it but I think the problem is to some degree is a lot of people
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spend a lot of time and effort painting their army up and turning up and and if
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we go back to tournaments for moment honing that that list for a to tournament and turning up and they've
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got this beautiful they've got this beautiful Tower Army they've spent loads of it fish heads yes you know and it's a
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little bit you know because on like you know in like loads of like there's probably loads of Marvel memes and you
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know and if you really like Captain America and then there's loads of these memes about him but at the end of the day you're not the person drawing the
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comic and writing the story you consume you buy it you consume it you read it that's your favorite I don't think memes
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probably hit you as hard yeah is if you've been sitting there creating a thing yeah yeah I think I think mean
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culture and like I like what I don't like is when uh
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like say I've seen it in the Discord a bit where somebody will go like you say I spent ages painting this uh crisis
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suit and someone will say oh I would have like that but it's to yeah and I'm like no they put loads of time into that
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and that's like a real thing that someone's worked really hard on and and then you've gone L Fish Heads like I
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think that can get in the sea yes um I think I think memes are wonderful meing meing too far can get in the sea I think
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yes very good yeah I like it I like it Havoc
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photography um the desire SL race to paint everything as fast as possible I
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get that not everyone wants to paint and wants results fast but sometimes it feels like so many creators are just in
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a race that can all get in the sea so to speak it's an interesting one this I
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think um you know cuz we are a channel that
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has produced lots of speed painting videos yeah um but I think we don't come
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from the point of view of getting a whole Army painted for the sake of having your whole Army painted I think
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it's much more from us trying to sort of suggest getting enough done to get onto
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a tabletop or or and enjoy it I think it's always about the enjoyment getting it painted to get the enjoyment of the
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game for both you and your opponent um but I'm not a fast painter and I've
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tried in 2023 I I failed miserably of saying I'm going to batch paint I'm
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going to learn to stop and go that pouch is brown there is 10 guys with them pouches no one is going to look to see
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whether the leather's chipped and I've tried that and I've failed miserably cuz
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I fall down a rabit hole of over painting a marine who's going to be one of 10 that may well you you may never
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even notice you barely notice what gun he's got and I'm terrible for it so I I
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you know I think you paint it your own speed and also as well it's not a well
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for most of us it's not a job it's your hobby and you painted the speed that
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brings you fun yes you know if you desperately want to get a a a combat
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Patrol all done because you want to play it against your mate and you both have made a pack that it's going to only play
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when it's done or a kill team or a war band or whatever it may be then great you know we've got loads of videos to do
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all of that that's great and get on you know do that but at the end of day this isn't being
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you're not doing this at gunpoint it's got to be your own yeah enjoyment is
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absolute Paramount first isn't it yeah absolutely yeah um and it's something I've seen on comments on uh you know
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some of Peach's painting videos um that they oh this obsession with trying to
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paint quickly and this that and the other and and and to sort of agree with Mr Havoc uh to a certain extent is you
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know from a a video standpoint you want your V you know you see your thumbnail
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in a sea of other thumbnails what's going to get people to click on that one and time is is like a a a click Factor
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um and and that's kind of like the the catch the hook to get you to click on
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the video um whereas hopefully you know you could watch it and there's techniques in there that you can pull
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out from it and so on and so forth um but yeah
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I uh keep going back I mean we talk about him a lot Henry from uh Cult of
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paint and his on one of his black Templar videos he's like you know these don't look how I want them
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to I'm just going to have to spend more time on them to to get them where I want and I think
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that's kind of where I'm at Obsession at the minute consuming
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everything as fast as you can wouldn't be amazing if there was a YouTube channel out there that went I'm painting
27:43
this Marine in real time and I'm really slow and it was a 12-hour
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video that that be so good I mean how to paint a blood Angel really slowly yes
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yes 12 hours of me and I I've been watching for an hour now he's only done
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one ey lens yeah and I wouldn't watch it i' click i' click on it and Skip through
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and see oh five hours where's he at oh he's done the head um or or something
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along those lines um and I but I think that's where where streaming has its place yeah um and then it can be more
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interactive you can talk and and all that sort of stuff so um yeah I think um
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yeah paint everything as fast as possible imagine doctors prescribing them videos for an insomniacs with they
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you've probably never heard of a blood Angel and you probably don't know what one is but there a guy's got a 12-hour video yes I'll write it down for you go
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watch he got he got a really nice voice um yeah yeah I I I think that'll be
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hilarious but it's everything's got to be consumed quick hasn't it yeah I think perhaps like well you know like um do
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you use Tik Tok at all a little bit yeah how you get if it's a longer video and
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they want you to get to watch it they'll split the screen and put like a game uh
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underneath yeah and that's like something focusing on like two things at once like just kind of like immobilizes
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you and it sticks you to the screen and and and maybe that's kind of that's a terrible State of Affairs that we're at
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in with regards the uh the attention span of the human RAC yeah yeah yeah so so like eight out of 10 cats does
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countdown uh at least the videos that I get recommended it's you know Jimmy Carr
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and and they're all having a laugh and this that and the other but and it's all about the context of where you're
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watching it like if you're sitting down and watching it on TV of course you're going to be more sort of focused on it you wouldn't I'd like to think you
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wouldn't pay all that money to go to a cinema and then should be like yeah oh I can't watch this film I'll just put that
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subway runner game on in front of me I watched a comedian the other day who was saying um he says that he now thinks
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that people who because of so much tick talk he says I now think anybody that
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told me they sat the other night and watched a movie as being massively intellectual they going get you can sit
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all the way through a film you go you know and I think um but like I say I think speed painting has its place
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especially for things like kill team you know get it done on the weekend I think they have their place but I also think
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painting at the speed that brings you the most Joy has its place absolutely um
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and I guess I I I don't I don't think I can throw paint everything as fast as
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possible in the sea um I think expectation can get in the SE
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I can yeah I can fully understand how you log into YouTube and everything is is
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um you know the slapchop phenomenon sort of thing um but slapchop wasn't about
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painted in two minutes it was like do you hate painting but like want to play with painted Miniatures um and that sort
30:55
of stuff and how that was incredibly popular and then has sort of like uh I think the problem we have I think uh
31:01
where there needs to be a disconnect but I think we've got at the moment I think there's an overlap of teaching people to
31:08
paint who don't really massively love painting and want to play and the people
31:14
who want to learn nice new techniques are ending up getting a bit caught in the mix of the thing that's like here's
31:21
how to get it done so you can get past that bit and get to the dice rolling bit I think they're crossing paths where
31:27
they should at some ways maybe yeah yeah and I think content creators like you know I'm the problem uh in that we have
31:34
a short period of time uh we have two days to film this video well let's paint something quick what could be the selling point we painted this quick um
31:41
and and as is the way because you want to keep releasing videos so uh people
31:46
keep watching you and you earn money yeah um and people do watch them as well um like slapshot videos still do really
31:54
really well um so yeah yeah it's very interesting uh so it's you know it's in
32:02
what's what's that like bit of land that um that the crown owns it's like it's not the beach it's not the sea it's like
32:09
the shallows whatever that's called yeah like when the Tide's out you totally see it um um the wash or something no that's
32:17
yeah I don't know I I remember learning about it when I got like my drone pilot's license or something like that
32:22
um so maybe maybe it can it can float around there yeah I think so yeah yeah it's in a rock pool so
32:27
yeah you can get in the Rock pool yeah yeah um and I think was it when when we
32:34
had Tom on you know and like ah the mod Li remove is terrible and it's like yeah but it's not designed for you uh but
32:40
then if you it's designed for somebody who's not allowed to buy a knife yes but then understandably it could be
32:45
frustrating if you walked outside and billboards everywhere were like mline
32:50
remover you need it uh you're like no I don't I've just got a hobby knife um but whatever I don't know yeah I'm a
32:56
different about that one Okie doie close to the Sea close to the sea but not fully in no it's getting its feet wet
33:02
yes yeah paddle you can go for a paddle in the SE yeah yeah interesting interesting topic that one lots to talk
33:09
about um faces and bases happy New Year jents happy New Year yeah there's been
33:15
uh some flashes of real progress by GW in terms of free rules downloads long may that continue I'd love it if they
33:23
dropped the pay wall for the app though Army building tied up by Warhammer plus
33:28
Subs some physical codex purchases need to stay in
33:34
2023 it's a tough one this is I think there's two answers I think there's the answer is the consumer and the answer is
33:39
if I was running a business yeah um I personally think the Army Builder works
33:44
extremely well I think the rounding of the point the point cost whether we
33:50
think that's a good or a bad thing has made it easier for the app to work I think that's you know not having to
33:57
start thinking well the price of a plasma gun price of this the price of that so I think that's
34:03
made a very reasonably good workable tool there is other variants of it um I
34:09
know that you you know you you have other Army Builders out there I find the Games Workshop one the easiest to work
34:15
with go oh there's photograph of the thing I own yeah click how many do I want that many uh so um so I paying for
34:24
that because it's a tool that I use and it's a tool that I use that works you know I don't go out to being q and get
34:30
given a screwdriver for free I have to buy it and then I go home and lo and behold it does its job so uh paying for
34:37
a tool that works that works for me quite well then yes I'm quite happy with that but then
34:44
this thing of the overlap of then going I pay for that why am I then also paying for
34:49
codex's because uh I don't like the idea of I I
34:54
get it I think the problem being though is though is the fact that you know codex's cost 30 quid which you can
35:02
there's a whole separate argument about whether that's too expensive but then you go you would effectively be
35:08
getting as many codexes as you would need wouldn't you for not a lot of uh
35:13
you know yeah you know you know you could literally screenshot every single
35:19
thing couldn't you and then cancel your subscription yeah you know what I mean so I I I don't like it um I don't like
35:27
it I think it's um I think it's a bit ropey the that that yes you're having to
35:32
pay twice um but at the moment you know I I
35:37
don't have a black Templar codec so I rely on the I rely on the app for
35:43
building black templ armies you know I think so the price it's it's it's not a bad it's it's it's good for me at the
35:48
moment but they needs to be there is a third
35:55
option and I don't know what it is I think is the problem yeah you know I think like if if Games Workshop had more
36:03
competition then they would sort it out yeah but they don't so they're not going
36:08
to because nobody else has any other options I and the problem being as well as I and I can only speak for myself
36:15
here but I think if you um if all my
36:21
codex's were online for free or in my in
36:26
the in the the Army Builder app or whatever I've got to be honest and say I know I know but I'd probably still go
36:33
out and buy the book I like physically having a book in my hand I like I like
36:38
sometimes just sitting there and you know you buy your code if your codex just came through you know if you think
36:43
about if the everything you needed for your codex was in the app and it was for free for those there's loads of people
36:49
out there that really love their fluff and their law yeah they wouldn't get all that they wouldn't get all the nice glossy photographs of of the new
36:55
miniatures that will be in a lot of codexes painted and all the rest of it so you know I think it's a tough one cuz
37:02
I think um some people just want the Bare Bones rules everything they need
37:08
other people like the fluff and the and and the the color photographs and all the rest of it and then there's people
37:14
like me I just I don't know I just consume rules better when I'm literally holding the physical book yeah
37:20
personally yeah yeah I don't know why but um yeah so it's a tough one but I think I I think there does need to be
37:28
some other option I just don't know what it is so uh I mean ideally it would be
37:35
if you just want a codex or you just want to buy digital rules or or have some have a separate hopefully slightly
37:41
cheaper version that's digital only yeah and then you have the Codex which has the digital with it like the code and
37:47
everything um yeah I think maybe I think
37:52
maybe is maybe the answer that they just sell
37:58
you that you could just buy the code buy you could buy the code out the back of the book yeah for a certain amount of
38:05
money yeah you know what I mean yeah maybe that's the answer is like you know you go but is this all moot because
38:12
they're not going to do that for a while yeah all are because like say and like say I used to play Infiniti and Infiniti
38:18
pushed their rules out for free on online I still went out and bought the book yeah I just did and that's just how
38:24
I see it it's a I think it's a difficult want to answer cuz I think it just comes down to what you want from the what you
38:30
want from your purchase I think I I get if the people don't like the fact they being charge twice yeah but I don't mind
38:37
paying that price because I feel like it's a workable tool that that suits me
38:43
so and then yeah because I guess books are becoming more irrelevant because of when they do all the balance data slates
38:49
and all that sort of stuff like I mean the votan Codex was out of date before it even came out which came out on
38:54
General release which is awful so then you're buying what 30 quid book that's
39:01
pointless and then you have to use the digital ones anyway so again that could be you know the tournaments they balancing things and I think the um I
39:09
think the them being honest now of going we're going to always constantly be looking at the points yeah which leads
39:15
all the way back to other the question about about tournaments but this thing going we're always going to be and now the fact that uh where your point cost
39:23
is in the codex has a QR code that you can scan which will get you access to
39:28
the most upto-date points cost for your army yeah it seems to be something heading in the right direction yes which
39:36
makes the books more and more irrelevant yeah in a way you're kind of you you you
39:42
got right I've got my UP State rules and a paper weight with some nice pictures in yeah uh so so you know what yeah
39:49
codex is as lovely as they are and I can appreciate that people like the books I'm definitely one of them but in terms
39:56
of the way the game is going I think we've answered it and they have to get in the
40:01
see ah I hated I I I want to disagree with you but if I'm being if I put me
40:06
utterly sensible hat on for a minute I think you're probably right let's side with the
40:12
consumer yeah yeah we're not pro Games Workshop what uh okay uh Looney says
40:20
stormcast and Marines being the poster boys other factions offer so much more
40:27
so I'm can I can I go first on this one do firmly on on land for me all right so
40:37
stonecast and Space Marines they look really cool and to your Outsider you
40:43
think of like Games Workshop Warhammer you think of a a Space Marine and other
40:50
factions do have more to offer yes but you need your entry point yeah and I
40:55
think they look cool they get people started and then oh there's the aliens
41:01
that they fight with yeah oh and then there's this and oh there's a book about that and and so on and so forth so I
41:06
think there's you know there's there's a there's a funnel uh whereas if you I'm
41:11
assuming I'm going to make an assumption I don't I don't try not to do that very often that if they're on our patreon
41:19
they're a hobby fan and they they they know Games Workshop product um but
41:25
everybody starts somewhere so if you have something generic that lots of people will look at and go yeah that
41:30
looks cool whereas if you if you had a hobr slitter as the poster boy of um AE
41:41
of sigar and then or or like um what's that Squig that looks like Elvis oh yeah
41:47
clonk or something and he was a post boy 40K you're like what make it very Niche yeah those are
41:54
very extreme examples but I think a nice
41:59
generic lots of people will think this is cool entry into the Hobby and then
42:04
you that's the start of your journey yeah um potentially so I think firmly on
42:10
land firmly on land I and I think family on land I think it's funny that the
42:16
poster boys which I in some ways I sort of respect really I think it's quite funny that if you look from the 40K
42:21
poster boys I can't say too much about stormcast I don't know them very well that the Marines the poster boyss but in
42:27
actual game terms don't do that well which I think is quite quite interesting and I think the problem being is if you
42:34
um even though the minute you tap into the law of Space Marines you know they're not really very much the good
42:39
guys but you know we've we've talked about that with uh with our friend alberan is that they're not really the
42:46
good guys but if you're new to the Hobby they look like the good guys yes they a bit they're Defenders of the human race
42:54
and I know they came first for anyone so I saiding they're a bit Halo they're a bit you know big guys in sci-fi armor
43:01
and the other thing about them I know that once you go down the rabber wholewood space marinees Space Marines can be massively complex to paint when
43:08
it comes to highlighting and and shading and all the rest of it I get that but I
43:13
think even for the uninitiated you just spray a Space Marine and then stick a
43:19
decal on his shoulder and paint the gun yeah they look all right and stormcaster same you spray them Gold pain the tab in
43:26
blue and and they look okay imagine if you had Jean Steelers and it's like right well the skin has to be this but
43:31
then it gets like a deeper purple and then you really want to highlight all the stripes on their heads and then yeah
43:38
they have the the kiten yeah they have to be human and then the skin and then the suits don't forget the dynamite um
43:46
that would be really difficult and that's it isn't it this the problem they have to be you know we always are attracted to things that I think
43:52
initially till you learn till you know more you're always attracted to things you can Rel to and you go if if the
43:59
Guardsman was the the poster boy of 40K I think he'd still go we go well he
44:05
doesn't he looks my uncle's in the Army and he looks a bit like that you know you know
44:11
what I mean yeah you go you know cool but you know but but you need to go
44:16
Space Marine to go that's blatantly a bigger cooler version of what we are
44:22
yeah you know and I think I think that's I think rightly or wrongly I think we're
44:28
attracted to things that remind us of our of ourselves in some in in some way
44:33
and I think yeah so no I I well you you may be absolutely right that there is
44:38
cooler looking aliens and and all the rest and I agree with a large amount of that but I think no they have to stay on
44:44
land yeah because I I think I think Marines are are fantastic um but I like from a black
44:52
Library point of view I love reading about human yeah and how they survive in such like a
44:58
crazy universe but then if I look at a shop window and there's I don't know
45:05
like a someone holding a last gun or something it kind of be like what like
45:10
yeah the end of the day the way you've got the way I look at it is is rightly or wrongly and people go oh shake their
45:16
fist at me I'm getting my fist ready but if he didn't if if Space Marines weren't cool from the beginning you would never
45:22
had any of the Zenus races anyway cuz no one would have ever bought them and you need to buy Space Marines to
45:28
then you know what I mean yeah once the game really got in its flow of like second edition you needed to have cool
45:34
looking Space Marines for then everything else to to come from that and and I think as the as games work shops
45:42
early USP I think yeah they they were vital so no dry land for me yeah dry
45:48
land yeah all the way back as far as maybe in the cafe not even on the beach what's it I
45:55
mean well I mean appropriate Nottingham is a landlocked County so they can no wonder
46:01
here they can stay in Games Workshop um yeah okay Stuart says I would love to
46:07
wave a wand and get rid of the need for subassemblies for painting I always muck up the gluing
46:14
together uh with the painting after um so sub assemblies I
46:21
mean if you if you're in pursuit of perfection yes your sub your sub you're
46:26
doing your sub assemblies aren't you um to get to get all of the perfect angles
46:34
on everything to do the like I I I don't like sub assemblies I understand the need for them I don't do it often um but
46:41
I always love the building side of things and I I have very little self-control and I always I always like
46:48
that immediate high of being like I built it yeah um where the amount of times I've done that with a black
46:54
template that's w cloak that I've said to myself I'll leave that cloak off yes and then the next thing I'm sitting
46:59
looking at a gray plastic M with the cloak on yeah and and like M cod's Army I was like right I'm just going to do
47:06
nothing but build them for for however long um I was like I'm not going to subassembly anything and then I Bas them
47:12
all as well um and then now I'm pulling them off the bases to paint the underneath of the cloaks and stuff like
47:18
that cuz I'm like the way that I've done them I'm like right I've done my gold and you do that quite early on and
47:26
it's like right I don't want to mess up and get loads of stuff on the gold cuz it's really hard to clean so I'm like
47:31
it's much easier I mean it's not technically a subassembly I guess if I'd put them all on corks then that would
47:38
have been great but I yeah I kind of went after the speed of building just to get it done yeah um yeah I think
47:45
sometimes the building does run away with you I think it really does I I don't sub I don't subassembly many
47:52
things I generally and generally work on the idea if if I have
47:59
to get a if if I have to get a really small paintbrush in there to get all of that painted then generally once in a
48:06
gang of 10 most people aren't going to see it anyway yeah um you know if I if if
48:12
I get to the back of that cloak behind you like you know it's yeah it's it I
48:18
think sub assembly comes down to your own personal Pursuit for Perfection yes
48:24
and and how are you going to be viewing that miniature uh like if if it's an
48:30
heavy metal Space Marine and you are looking at it the equivalent of like
48:36
there yeah on war hammer.com that amazing website that no one has anything bad to say nothing at all that can stay
48:43
in 2023 that Bloody website um get in the sea um that you know you're looking
48:49
at all the fine details and you're inspecting it whereas yes if if if it's
48:54
one miniature int of a bigger Army than who you know
49:01
who who would be looking at it I would say I would say um so yeah it's very personal I think yeah I think it's a
49:07
very personal answer to that one um I think if you know if you plan it out well for sub
49:13
assembly if you're doing like a main character then yeah I've got to be honest if you it's very unlikely I will
49:19
ever painting but if you if I was painting The Lion I probably would sub
49:24
assemble the lion yeah and I would just and this whole thing of paint on glue
49:29
and glue on paint and that this jent talking about I very much understand that I get it but I think I would just
49:36
spend a real good chunk of time looking at maybe some of the some of the people
49:41
on YouTube who are really good painters who do SUB assemble and see how they planned it out yeah and then and go with
49:49
that you know and I think and to be fair I think increasingly with a lot of the new 40K miniatures I'll use as an
49:56
example and probably a lot of games work mines across the board the glue points are start increasingly becoming hidden
50:03
in the way they design Miniatures so a lot of things where that you know so I think um I think Miniatures are become a
50:11
little bit more forgiven for not potentially pulling off the best sub assembly ever as the technology improves
50:17
and and that kind of thing but I think it's it's your own personal Pursuit yes yeah so yeah for me depends on the
50:23
miniature I think yeah it's a bit of a Wishy wasy answer that but yeah it yeah
50:29
yeah like if I could get away with never doing a sub assembly I would yes um so
50:35
exactly the same so yeah I think you know if reality didn't exist I would say
50:42
sub assemblies get in the sea I don't like doing them but I will if I absolutely have to yeah and and you know
50:48
certain things it's yeah it it doesn't it doesn't take a whole Lo to just leave
50:54
a cloak off stick a bit of blue tack on one side of it paint it make sure it's really really dry tin over paint the other one it's
51:01
not it's not massively difficult to do it's just your patience I think is more and and you know not turning into a 10
51:08
yearold and wanting to have everything on the table built I think is the problem yeah
51:17
okay yeah okay so um interesting so to go
51:26
uh well someone said oh I'd like uh to stay in 2024 keep the fun in painting
51:32
and showing work to others I think that's great nice positive uh to go I think some channels that are just all
51:39
negative about GW I mean yes they do some bad things but light lighten up a
51:45
little it's not the end of the world yeah I have a bit of a strong I
51:50
have a strong standpoint on this um I don't don't like I don't like
51:57
massively negative video uh VI channels myself I think there's a place for them I think that people feel that they want
52:03
to call big companies out obiously mainly Games Workshop they want to call them out for things they do wrong and
52:09
let's be honest they do plenty of things wrong but they're not the only company
52:15
that does things wrong I we bought a Blum and Dyson to Hoover our van and
52:20
very quickly it died and it was the battery gone and then when we found out about replacing the battery the battery
52:26
was 2/3 of the price of the Hoover oh you know what I mean it's like so it's not these things across your life on
52:32
just you know yeah just gray miniature problems they're problems for a whole
52:38
range of things but um I don't want to and I don't have to and and some of the
52:44
ones that I find that really do spend their time being massively down on Games
52:49
Workshop the way I work with them is I just don't watch them but I don't want someone to really slag off my hobby cuz
52:55
I like my hobby and I want to enjoy my hobby and I don't want someone to tell me that my hobby is all wrong yeah and
53:01
that might be a bit head in the sand approach but yeah I don't I don't want that if you if you you know if you if I
53:08
think if you really really want to hear people win and be negative about something that you enjoy doing you
53:16
really really need to take up more spend more time following football cuz there will be loads of
53:22
people will either slag your team off cuz they supp another one or slag your team off and that's also the team they
53:28
support if you really want to hear people winge about something you spend a lot of time enjoying yeah and or a lot
53:35
of time invested in watch more football and then listen to more podcasts and
53:41
YouTube channels about your football team and you'll get exactly that high is my answer yeah but I I if you're if you
53:48
were Hammer channel is is negative you do you and and good on you that people enjoy what you do but
53:55
I don't need you to to make me feel worse about me hobby I spend enough time doing it I don't need make me worse
54:01
about it fair so in the sea for the me for that long yeah yeah I I think not in
54:08
the sea um oh okay interesting I think um I I'm very much in the sort of like I
54:14
don't know like don't hate the player hate the game um in in that like yes like I I
54:21
generally don't don't watch Channels like that yeah um but they're never going to go away um or
54:30
anything like that and I think if if someone's made a career out of it uh Power to them um if they weren't doing
54:36
it somebody else would be absolutely right um I know that you know like like
54:42
some people don't like leaks and and and and that sort of thing it's it's here
54:48
it's the world we live in uh can it change maybe a little bit but realistically probably not the good
54:54
thing about them channels is you watch one you go well that was quite negative
55:00
and then if you look at then the list of all the videos you've done generally they all lead with quite negative titles
55:06
I think it's very quick to understand what you're going to get yeah and to then just go don't don't click the
55:12
notify button don't don't subscribe to them um like yes and and I think the
55:18
titles are usually a bit Sensational cuz it's clickbait you want people to to click and watch the video uh and then
55:25
quite often if if I ever have I'm like oh that was more balanced than I thought it would be um which which I think is is
55:31
why I'm sort of not in the sea I think every every element of the hobby um I mean within reason um has its
55:42
place you know it's funny though isn't it is I think which I think shows quite an
55:48
interesting for me an interesting slant on the community for the for wargaming
55:54
especially games Workshop baseball gaming is that you get Mo you get Negative you get people
56:01
who spend a lot of time doing negative videos about them and then there's the rest of us but you don't get too many
56:08
that are hugely siop fantic which is quite you don't you don't get many where people go Games Workshop can do no
56:15
wrong really most most people are generally like don't like the price these I don't like there's five in the
56:21
Box I don't like there's this or you know and it generally can be relatively balanced about it and I think I think it
56:27
shows a um I think it shows an interesting thing I think to some degree
56:32
mainly I think if you were very sick of Fick about Games Workshop would people just not trust
56:37
you yeah I think so you know we we generally relatively well balanced on here we we talk about what we like we
56:44
talk about what we don't like but we we don't get really aggressively annoyed about stuff or wi about the things that
56:51
we you know we we we can't change so yeah yeah in the sea for me because they
56:58
make me feel bad but out the sea because I feel like I don't have to watch them yeah so fair you yeah yeah I think
57:05
that's all right um excellent okay less
57:10
snapfi kits and more posable kits legs body arms heads instead of this only fit
57:17
like the picture says format
57:23
oh well if Mr Peach was here he would tell you that you put enough effort in everything's convertible yeah he's you
57:31
know he's a big believer of getting stuck in and and converting things um for me I think it's a funny one and I've
57:37
talked about this before because I was in in 20 years ago when or more than 20
57:43
years ago as it was when um the um when
57:49
I think it was Mark possibly wrong Mark ath armor Marines and they were all
57:54
inter interp posable heads and torsos and legs and arms and and you could swap
58:00
the weapons around and stuff and they were much more easy to to do it and people go oh they were so easy to multi-
58:07
pose and do this and they do that but you know what basically if you look at two Marine armies all of the cool
58:12
different ways posing them everyone had everyone had done each other's done the same as each other anyway yeah and I and
58:19
I'm sort of a foot in both Camp SE it's like multi pose do what I want with them but no matter how cool I pose I've come
58:26
up with somebody else has already done it yeah and then on the other side of it I think some of these ones where they
58:32
are they have been designed to only work that way some of the posers are really
58:38
really cool yeah you know the fact that now instead of me having to make an arm
58:43
do this the fact that there is I think on the um space Wolf Prim marus kit
58:49
there is an entire and also it's it's happened on the snap fit uh In fairness
58:56
Marines there is you can now have an entire arm with a with a a dagger half
59:03
out of a scabard that can be being pulled and at one point in time when you go back to multipar hit you'd have still
59:09
had to hack all that a bit to get that to do that and the fact that some of the
59:14
the the modeling system now is so clever that you end up with real and you can still put that arm on you know a lot of
59:21
different Marines so choice to be able to convert and do
59:26
what you want you want I understand it but I found that no matter how cool I made something and I end up and played
59:33
in my local Games Workshop being Fray someone else had a marine that already looked the same so yeah yeah it's a very
59:40
longwind the danc I'm afraid but I I don't know I think I think some of the new design yes it is a pain when you're
59:46
trying to go what arms do they go with what you know what legs do they only fit but I generally think the the finished
59:52
product looks really good yes and if you still put the effort in you can still convert them yeah
59:59
yeah so not in the sea for me not in the sea I I'm inclined to agree um and I'm
1:00:06
aware that I'm approaching this from a bit more of like a a novice sort of point of view um but like I said I've
1:00:13
been doing a bit of 3D printing recently and I got some stls for
1:00:19
some uh essentially killer can you know variant
1:00:25
yeah so like killer um like you know mini dread NS Clippers and everything um
1:00:31
and these have more sort of standardized bits um and you can put the any legs you
1:00:39
want any arms you want and it's like a ball and socket joint um and initially I
1:00:44
was like oh that's awesome yeah I can convert it I can do whatever I want but then I looked at the finished thing and
1:00:49
I was like well it all looks like this mechanical scrap cool thing yeah apart
1:00:55
from this like all these random ball and socket joints everywhere and that took
1:01:00
me out of it yes um and I thought you know if I if this was a GW kit like I
1:01:06
have some killer can um yet to build them yes they'll most likly be stuck in one of two poses yeah but they will look
1:01:14
more complete because of it yeah um so
1:01:21
and again with the 3D printing stuff with the Templar bits I've tried to use
1:01:26
like I'm like oh I want to put that hand on there and then oh maybe I'm going to have to use that one now but I can't
1:01:32
have two hands pointed forwards and then I'm sort of doing the posing uh and and
1:01:38
it's the test that I haven't studied for um whereas I I fully understand how some
1:01:43
people would love that and and like to post things themselves um yes it's a lot
1:01:49
perhaps more effort now because you're generally forced to try and do it one way but for
1:01:55
me currently where I am in in my hobby Journey uh I quite like having a
1:02:02
professional that's designed it for me and made it look really cool uh because I feel it leaves less room for error for
1:02:09
me yeah so on land I think you know the bottom line is I can spend ages
1:02:16
converting a marine so he looks like he's jumping off a rock with a knife and look really cool or I can go out and buy a miniature that an expert has designed
1:02:24
of a marine jumping off a rock with a knife you know what I mean because I think you know you go yeah but your
1:02:30
Marine you've bought jumping off a rock with a knife is the same as my one that I bought they're just different colors
1:02:36
and you go yeah but back to it if I sat there and cut everything up and converted it and changed it I'd still
1:02:42
eventually walk into somebody who'd done exactly the same thing as well so yeah I I'd rather have the nicely designed
1:02:49
Miniatures and if you really have that b and desire to get your hacka out you still can yeah so yeah that's it for me
1:02:58
okay not in the sea for me no yeah not in the sea for me either but I can understand that some people toally
1:03:04
understand would want to to throw it in the sea yeah yeah um okay I really don't
1:03:10
want to see any more difficult to get exclusive models like the catch we had
1:03:16
recently they're all being scalped and to people who live in a country without official Warhammer stores there's really
1:03:22
no way of getting them sad face wholeheartedly agree on that I
1:03:28
wholeheartedly I used to play a game called confrontation and um I spent a
1:03:33
lot of time because it it was late to get into the UK because it was a French game yeah and it didn't it took a while to sort of find feet in the UK and then
1:03:40
I spent silly money and silly amount of time hunting down
1:03:46
exclusive confrontation Miniatures um that had been given away
1:03:52
at like you know French tournament and you know and and it it I think that
1:03:58
that thing of going you know I really want that and through no fault of my own
1:04:03
it's not available to me and I know you can go well grow up it's the real world you know what I I want a por but I can't
1:04:09
get one but it it's it's not like that because it's within your means to afford one yes but you can't get one yeah or
1:04:18
because the so you know a certain amount of people are holding on to them and are selling them for large sums of money
1:04:26
um or you know it's just not available in your country one way or another I think it it is sad especially when you
1:04:33
think Games Workshop obviously have to make that mold that mold sitting somewhere you know you could be and
1:04:40
especially when especially take the catch chance for example is the fact there are an
1:04:45
army that in some ways has got some newish little bits done a little while ago and then other bits are really
1:04:52
creaking away the fact that they've had a couple of exclusive Miniatures that really would help a tired army yes and
1:05:00
then they're not available to Everybody Must sting yeah you know yeah yeah and I
1:05:05
I think the the argument of like just don't be sad about it uh he like just
1:05:12
cheer up like it's it's that's not valid uh so yeah I I think yeah it's if it's
1:05:18
um like I I can understand why they do it but yeah again this the thing is as always the thing is as well is that we
1:05:23
are players we're painters but we're all whether we ever like to put this moniker
1:05:28
onto ourselves we are also by the pure definition of what we do collectors M
1:05:35
and when there's something you can't collect it it always it it always just
1:05:41
it just always stings even if it only it stings some people more than others but I think it stings all of us yeah so I
1:05:47
think not been able to get them yet I think that definitely should get in the SE what I think you should do to give
1:05:53
people their feeling of being a special boy is maybe give them a head
1:05:58
start go right this will be available for you know store anniversaries
1:06:05
tournaments uh games days whatever yeah they're there and you'll only be able to get them there but we will they should
1:06:13
always come with will be released at a later date yeah yeah so you know within a year you'll be able to just go into
1:06:19
the shop and buy one yeah or buy one only online through games work shop exclusively online or something but I
1:06:26
think cuz you want to feel special you can have it early but everyone should eventually be able to get one you can get yeah this is like you could go down
1:06:33
the line of this like your Chinese recasters and because you could definitely get them off of uh well this
1:06:40
is it well you know all of these exclusive Miniatures that people can't get their hands on if you go search
1:06:45
around hard enough on the internet you can get a you can get it I I have one and I'll be honest about it I have the
1:06:53
uh death guard alternative plague Caster yeah and he was only available in Japan
1:06:59
in a paint set yeah and I wanted two play cters in my Army I didn't want to
1:07:05
have the same miniature twice yeah and that one I bought it I feel no guilt
1:07:11
over it and the reason I feel no guilt over it is because if Games Workshop had made him available to me in the UK I'd
1:07:17
have both theirs and i' rather both theirs because the quality of them the quality of the of the the plastic versus
1:07:24
the resin is actually better for GW I'd rather have the GW one all day long but
1:07:29
I wasn't having somebody have me pants down on eBay to pay the 4050 quit yeah
1:07:34
yeah yeah simple as that yeah so as much as I'd rather not use Chinese recasters
1:07:40
if you'd have made them available Games Workshop you'd have had me money yeah as simple as that yeah yeah very good point
1:07:45
very good point um so a few people I'm going to sort of bunch these into one
1:07:51
because uh some others have said uh um uh the same uh the same sort of
1:07:58
things and that is Games Workshop pre-orders can get in the sea either do them properly more like made to order or
1:08:04
don't do them at all whole heart I I I don't even feel like I need to just to
1:08:10
give a a reason for that I wholeheartedly agree with every bit of that yeah getting the see yeah do them
1:08:16
right or don't bother yeah yeah cuz it's becoming increasingly hard like the the the latest kill team uh box the scouts
1:08:24
versus the Scorpions yes cuz everything's on a twoe pre-order window at the minute um which is a bit annoying
1:08:33
um and then yeah sold out immediately uh didn't it again um so whatever I don't
1:08:40
know what's going on behind the scenes but you know I do they need to sort they felt like they promised us it was all going to get better
1:08:46
after it may just take a long time before you see that but it feels like it hasn't yet it's interesting though
1:08:52
because they never offici said anything about that it was all people going oh it might be quite difficult because they're
1:08:57
just really busy making Leviathan boxes and that I think that was something that was accepted in the community yeah but
1:09:03
it had you're right it had no official remark to say that they never said unless he was I don't remember it but I don't so because there's rumors of this
1:09:10
other Factory but it was on the same grid as theor Hospital the hospital and
1:09:16
then when they turned it on the hospital went we're not getting enough power so then the County Council went hm would we
1:09:22
like to keep saving lives or produce more toys toys obviously yeah so and
1:09:29
this is all conjecture and rumor and and and there not the other so they got to make another Factory somewhere else but then they want to keep it on the campus
1:09:35
but like you know it's a bit of I don't get wrong I don't envy them no I don't
1:09:41
envy them at all it must be really really difficult making making a 100 million profit or
1:09:47
BL but you know but I mean I don't envy the the the the trying to keep all the plates spinning but um you know I think
1:09:56
the one that I think got me was like you know was that League of otan kill team it was literally on sale for seconds
1:10:02
wasn't it yeah and it was just you know and it just I know he a bit a bit of
1:10:08
patience it all eventually turns up on a shelf but yeah if you know the I don't
1:10:14
think I've ever seen anything else maybe which is not although I am a bit of a
1:10:19
fan but not on the fanatical level there is people like you up outside
1:10:24
outside trendy Sports shops for pair of trainers that go on sale for run that
1:10:29
the minute they're done that's that's the end of it but they are to me and if you you are one good on you the more
1:10:36
fanatical end of own training issues you know this is a thing for a game of toy
1:10:42
soldiers that what percentage of the country make up must be you know must be ridiculously
1:10:50
L and he can't make enough for us you know yeah yeah yeah perhaps there with
1:10:56
you know they had a massive boom during covid people staying in having more time
1:11:02
uh you know a victim of their own success perhaps and a struggling to play catch up yeah growth is painful yeah um
1:11:09
maybe they're still trying to figure it out I don't know maybe maybe maybe they are still trying to get everything back on an even kill since Leviathan for all
1:11:17
I know you know cuz I don't ultimately and and if you are one maybe because of
1:11:22
a country you live and I I am sorry to hear it but I think I think in the end everyone got Leviathan yeah you know I
1:11:28
mean there was eventually there was enough wasn't he when we went to go and see element games yeah when we went to seen our friend Byron up at element
1:11:35
games in Stockport he had a 100 in a pile he eventually made a Tuck Shop in the car park house yeah yeah he had
1:11:42
loads of them didn't he yeah um so you know cuz he had like yeah the I SP hundreds of the pile and then they were
1:11:49
on shelves all around and we and I remember saying to Byron I said how have you got so many when when I put them up
1:11:55
for pre-order I just didn't put them all up for pre-order yes yeah and you know and and so you know so people that I
1:12:01
don't know anyone who went oh I didn't get I didn't wasn't able to get Leviathan yeah yeah I think everybody
1:12:08
sometimes as well I think with certain things it's best just waitting out because a lot of the time when it's a two Army box for whatever it might be
1:12:14
generally a lot of the time people only want one bit out of it I am I've got the scouts coming because um your friends of
1:12:21
mine uh Andrew Gibson Andrew Gibson he um I he said um I really want them
1:12:27
striking scorpions in new box I went well I really want them Scouts he went well I'll buy it and he says and I'll
1:12:32
I'll you can buy Scout how much was the box I can't remember I don't remember it
1:12:37
it doesn't have as much scenery in does it no it just has like key Point scenery that I get I get the impression have
1:12:44
rules or objectives within the game but I don't know how much um don't know how much it was I'll have to have a look I
1:12:49
hope it's cheaper than Andrew Gibson Andrew Gibson very kindly consider and he already bought me my for Christmas
1:12:56
bought me a splatter tool nice is and I said and I said to him I said when you come I said when that comes in let me
1:13:01
know when I said and tell me you more CH for the scouty right now you can have them for Christmas which is very sweet
1:13:08
buying me a Christmas present yeah he's man he is shout out to Andrew Andrew
1:13:14
Gibson Gibson yeah um okay easy one fine cast I can't stand it and won't buy it
1:13:20
get in the SE oh I should have got to se about five years years ago yeah long time ago shouldn't have even been brought into existence it should have
1:13:27
chok it should have choked at least 12 Dolphins by now how long that's been in the sea yeah yeah yeah so yeah we've got
1:13:34
some stock issues flying stands are just awful somewhere of man after that yeah well I
1:13:41
I'm I'm I'm the opposite on I I quite like them because I don't like flying stands but I like all the alternatives
1:13:47
to them less yeah yeah like they jumping off of a rock jumping off of a rock standing precariously on a rock with one
1:13:54
foot yeah and and if you like them good on you I don't like the big uh STL
1:14:00
printed um SM yeah that makes sense I think I think
1:14:06
the the epitome of tactical Rock jumping was like the new jetpack um yeah which M are all on CU at the moment I can't
1:14:12
figure out what I'm going to do with the I just thought the one that really stood out to me is looking ridiculous was Dante yeah cuz I thought either you're
1:14:19
landing on a precariously small amount of rock in that enormous big gold suit or you're taking off from a very small
1:14:25
precarious amount like going my engines aren't quite good enough to get me off the ground if I just climb up that two
1:14:30
footer Rock and then jump I'll be where I need to be and I just couldn't narratively it made no sense yeah I I
1:14:37
kind of Imagine Dante coming in like going down and like I don't know be
1:14:43
going for the battlefield not for that prar spit of rock surely yeah it's hard cuz I understand
1:14:48
this thing of trying to give them height and flight stands are really rubbish but but yeah they are the one out of lot
1:14:55
that looks the best for me yeah yeah um okay uh the desolator can stay in
1:15:02
2023 probably the nafest models they've done do you think yeah they definitely
1:15:09
can stay they're very good they're very good in game aren't they well they're not now they they got really they were
1:15:14
amazingly good yeah and then they rapidly Nerf them the one of the main things that they did as Nerf was he
1:15:20
stopped you taking them in t they s could only take them FES oh so they they've nerfed them
1:15:26
so they a funny thing I think a lot of people were like like me I bought them
1:15:32
for my son's Army and went I'll get them for him because they're pretty good and
1:15:37
I bought them from troll Trader yeah uh from a one of that big box they came in
1:15:43
all chopped so they were just you know that them and I got five of the out of that and I thought they're really good
1:15:49
in game so I'll get him some and I think a lot of people people were the same one I don't really like the looks them but I
1:15:55
know they work well yeah and uh and now so they were looked bad played well now
1:16:01
they look bad play bad so I think they are maybe they they will stay in 2023
1:16:08
regardless of whether people like they probably stay in 2023 amongst a lot of the tournament Players yeah so um yeah yeah so yeah
1:16:16
yeah um well the funny thing is about them isn't it h if uh if what Mr Peach
1:16:21
told us to was to be true is that they were sat on the shelf for a long time cuz even they knew they weren't great yes yeah yeah yeah I I so maybe they
1:16:29
belong in 2022 20201 even who knows how far back yeah quite possibly yeah yeah there
1:16:36
we go yeah would it like to see if they are the the the newest kit to be
1:16:43
redesigned what will be the first Prim marus kit not in coun push fits CU that
1:16:49
doesn't count what will be the first primaris kit to get a refresh now
1:16:54
there'll be an interesting one to see and it could be desolator and how long it might take yeah I reckon they're
1:17:00
Niche enough that they just go yeah if they if they unless Games
1:17:06
Workshop and and a know people say they do this on purpose and I don't know what to do unless games works it when oh
1:17:12
Christ we got a load of them desolator sitting on the shelf unn them and make them amazingly good but fair Ed to games
1:17:18
worksh I sometimes think there's things that they could be pushing really well and they just keep them they go no
1:17:24
they're too good we got you know and you go but he go we want every every tournament Marine player should have
1:17:29
desolates let's keep them really really good yeah but they haven't so um I don't know yeah' be interesting to see what
1:17:35
will be the first kit that gets refreshed or the from Prim arus yeah the cheeky aners they might do um they might
1:17:43
sort of refresh the bikes by giving them like White Scar bikes or or
1:17:49
um or Raven Raven Wing bikes they might get refresh that way but I don't know
1:17:55
but is that like theyve released the Terminators and then now they've announced the uh wi terminat death Wing
1:18:01
so but I don't think that counts as a refresh no that doesn't no um but I mean
1:18:06
you know making something chapter specific yeah yeah that doesn't count you're right it's not really a refresh
1:18:12
is it but I think some people who will have bikes and like bikes yeah will probably still buy Raven Wing bikes to
1:18:19
get different poses and you know what I mean so okay yeah yeah you never the bikes are still push fit right bikes are
1:18:26
still push fit yeah and they're terribly bad push fit at that as well they're really bad the only way to actually get
1:18:31
them to work is to cut all of the pegs out them and glue them together cuz they leave really terribly big gaps yeah
1:18:37
they're not great oh dear um yeah so
1:18:42
um yeah deiters can I yeah can can belong in 2023 or earlier yeah yeah yeah
1:18:53
in it SE the painting pH to remain obviously thank you very much um but
1:19:00
although it's nice to see perfect paint jobs and it's part of the hobby uh I'd like to see less Perfection
1:19:07
and more imperfection getting painting done quick easy on the table and in all
1:19:13
its that'll do pig that'll do Glory oh we we've we've talked about this already
1:19:19
haven't we yeah yeah yeah that uh yes I think both their place I think you know
1:19:25
yeah if you're more a gamer then absolutely right Perfection can get in the sea and if you're more a painter
1:19:31
collector or just some or or a gamer but you like your armies to be as nice as they can then yeah speed painting can
1:19:38
get in the sea I don't think there's a perfect answer for that one no no I think you you paint how you want to yeah
1:19:45
to quote uh Richard Gray's wife when uh he had a sore throat and she did his
1:19:50
April Force video she said he's he's your he's your rock you paint him however you like um such a good video
1:19:58
that I love it I love it um I wish you'd do more Richard if you're listening um
1:20:04
yeah so um yeah Scott says yeah those stupid Cirby flying stands they are hard
1:20:10
to attach uh never stay there for too long and make the model very top heavy y um
1:20:17
someone said the current Citadel files utter crap and wear out with minimal use
1:20:22
still got and using my previous generation blue handle ones oh I remember the blue handle ones I've got
1:20:28
to be honest I don't I generally now I I'm all um I'm team sponge file all the
1:20:34
way yeah file stick F the little thin fil and sticks or the bigger ones that we've
1:20:41
got some given to us by kindly given to us by AK or or you bought them from AK
1:20:46
whichever I can't remember but there I i' I'm all about sponge ones now I don't excuse me I don't use the metal files
1:20:53
particularly no I I really like uh like nail files like the sponge ones yeah yeah like not great cuz you know you get
1:21:01
less use out of them and you're throwing something else in the beIN and and that kind of thing but um the the convenience
1:21:07
and and the quality I think are great yeah so I I agree then yeah um to be
1:21:13
fair Games Workshop on if you are looking good quality model and tools
1:21:19
Games Workshop aren't your first stop no they don't produce the best Clippers they don't produce the best file they
1:21:24
don't produce the best glue nope they don't do any of it what you really need to do is do a little bit of research on
1:21:30
the internet and you'll find out the people who make the best and then they're not even competitively comprised
1:21:37
priced against some of the really good ones no I mean yeah they're designed for somebody going to into a shop and being
1:21:43
like right I've got these models what else do I need and someone goes this this this and this and then well you go down the hobby trumpet don't you a whole
1:21:50
video about it with Mr Mr yeah yeah not Tom Heston that'd be nice if we'd had him on the show wouldn't it
1:21:57
Tom hibb yeah if you haven't seen Tom's two videos of where they are worth
1:22:02
watching okay uh Forge World resin models are all overpriced crap and the
1:22:09
quality control is terrible get in the sea yeah H I've not built a lot of Forge
1:22:16
World resin but I have had even in the probably 10 pieces I've had I've had
1:22:21
some howlers and there really yeah yeah lucky for me is the fact I don't live too far yeah I can just get a me van
1:22:27
drive to go and go oh that Trish and someone goes away and comes back and go try that one you go that looks better okay but if you're overseas yeah you
1:22:34
live in New Zealand and you buy I think I would probably never buy a forge will kit if I lived in New Zealand he because
1:22:40
of the conversion on the price but also it turns up and there's a bit you can't fix or it's got you know they are still
1:22:47
a tough enough kit to build based on the material and based B
1:22:52
on the model structure you shouldn't then have to be sitting there with green stuff filling in bubbles yeah what using
1:23:00
your hair Dyer to unwarp things it that's that shouldn't be part of the
1:23:05
hobby challenge should well it is an expert kid yeah yeah yeah but you know what I mean you know it should never get
1:23:12
to the point that you know if you've got a a kit that you have to start getting a drill out and Pinon then yes that cuz
1:23:19
you accept that as part of being an expert kit but when you have to start correcting the flaw yeah that's not
1:23:26
expert kit modeling no what I mean no yeah very good point and especially at
1:23:31
that price yes because I guess they make less of them so to cover the costs it has to be more expensive like yeah how
1:23:38
like the business Works um yeah I I just think I I bought
1:23:45
a few bits in resin uh like this the custodi dreadnots yeah I can't wait for
1:23:50
them to be out in plastic uh building the the arms cuz you're like right okay
1:23:55
and I have to sort of hold it all together maybe I should have blue tacked
1:24:01
it but like right this has to be that angle cuz that has to be that angle and then this has to be that and that has to be that and then you let go and then it
1:24:08
all just Falls to bits and then you're like right where like it's it is more complicated um if you you you buying one of them I know people go well you've got
1:24:15
more money than sents to start with but you know if you're buying like a a a a warlord Titan and then a what a
1:24:23
w if if you were to building one of them and you know and then you decided you
1:24:29
wanted this particular gun and them guns run for like I don't know they must be
1:24:35
some of them are kicking nearly three figures yeah and you get that gun and you take it home and it's and it and
1:24:41
it's warped or it's got a bubble in it for that amount of money and you go and that's just the gun that's not the
1:24:48
miniature that's the gun yeah yeah yeah I yeah I yeah I think um I don't wish to
1:24:55
see the end of Ford World cuz I I think it produces a lot of amazing stuff but
1:25:01
it does you know if it was still Forge World but it was all plastic I'd be a very happy man yeah you know Forge is
1:25:07
doing more and more plastic now aren't they yeah um I think eventually sadly as it is I think Forge World will just get
1:25:15
swallowed up uh by by the main GW and I
1:25:20
think all the only it will only be really weird Fanboy stuff like Titans
1:25:25
and stuff like that that will probably I can't see getting rid of Titans cuz they are almost like this like Lynch pin of
1:25:32
expense aren't they you know you know people who really want to spend money who've got it by these or they bu
1:25:38
thunderhawks or whatever so I think they will always be around but you never I can't ever in my lifetime see the being
1:25:44
a plastic Titan yeah you know no KY that'd be very expensive as well
1:25:49
wouldn't it cheaper than cheaper than the resin yeah cheaper than the it would be cheaper than the res still be and it
1:25:55
would be a huge like I don't yeah I don't think they'd ever do it and but that's why for World exists to do all that stuff that stuff that yeah um and
1:26:03
then you you are properly into it if you're buying resin so yeah I don't enjoy resin I think it still needs to
1:26:10
exist so you know it's what it's not it's not on the beach it's on the Junes um personally yes personally I
1:26:19
just think I think what what needs to go in the sea is is bad is bad quality
1:26:24
control yeah I think is really what needs to be left all left in 2023
1:26:30
whichever you prefer but I think yeah needs to needs to to go is uh is people
1:26:36
not take enough time and effort on the kit at the end of the day they should do because they don't produce that much of it no you know no yeah yeah okay
1:26:45
interesting one I think scrapping the pay wall on the app would be good we kind of talked about that and get rid of the blanket Warhammer plus ban for
1:26:52
Canadians since August new Canadian Subs aren't allowed because of localization
1:26:58
difficulties so I think Canada came up with a law that said if you're streaming in Canada you have to have a certain
1:27:05
percentage of it done by Canadians I think or or I'm not
1:27:11
100% sure more than happy to be corrected um I think and and GW all UK
1:27:19
based uh or you know I don't know where the animation teams are based I'm presuming not Canada because now can't
1:27:26
do it in Canada really bizarre rule that isn't it I like the old I like I always like this idea of trying to promote uh
1:27:32
industry within your own Nation you know and I'm not I'm not a massively patriotic person yeah I think you know
1:27:39
being able to produce you know if you said to me you can buy a British washing machine or you can buy a washing machine
1:27:45
from you know from Japan I'd probably be more tempted to buy the British one even I thought I was paying slightly more for
1:27:50
it cuz I do like homegrown industry but um I do I do think that's a little bit
1:27:56
weird I think Wonder Maybe if the answer to that is is that they just hire Canadian voice
1:28:01
actors yeah as opposed to like the same five black Library voice actors that
1:28:07
they have and they all do a fantastic job don't get me wrong um or just like you know in in you know go back into the
1:28:13
animation and have a load of Space Marines with a big Maple leafers their chapter you know or they're all wearing check shirts
1:28:20
or something I don't know yeah just one of them just comes on and says aboot yeah yeah I don't know you know I I I
1:28:28
don't I think that's massively unfair yes and it and it and also just a little
1:28:34
bit silly you know it's a bit silly when you consider you can still walk into I'm
1:28:41
sure I've not been uh sadly but I'm sure there is a pretty stonkingly good war
1:28:47
hammer shop somewhere in Toronto oh yeah so the fact that they've got a shop where virtually well virtually all of
1:28:54
everything it SS will have been made overseas you can go in but you can't
1:29:01
consume via you can't consume media that is completely designed somewhere else
1:29:07
it's a OD there but then I guess let's say like when the Amazon show comes into
1:29:12
existence um that could be really bad couldn't it that but uh Amazon Prime
1:29:19
Prime video whatever it is still works in Canada so people in 3 to five years time will be able to watch
1:29:25
something because it's not show specific I think it's just in general as a
1:29:30
company so Amazon are big enough that they're probably like yeah we've got that we've got this like like Netflix
1:29:36
for example they have loads of apparently they because they for the first time ever they released all of their viewing data or something like
1:29:42
that more and more people are watching with um subtitles on so foreign language
1:29:48
films are increasing because people are used to watching with subtitles so now you know like squid game for example
1:29:54
that was like massive enormous everyone was talking about it for for for consider although you could watch that
1:30:01
um you could watch that dubbed couldn't you yeah shock yeah I didn't bother I'd prefer to watch it um the only problem I
1:30:09
have with um with subtitle shows where they are foreign language is um it means
1:30:15
I can't have them on while I'm painting is the only downside yes you have to give them your you have to give it your entire attention I I was chatting with k
1:30:22
about this you can't have your phone i' only yeah I'd only watch uh a foreign
1:30:28
language film with subtitles if I was sat down and that was my focus I couldn't I couldn't put it on his background noise no um and the other
1:30:35
problem I have with it as well is that I have to put it on quite early because I do find um reading um foreign subtitled
1:30:42
things because I love scandy Noir sorts of stuff but it's generally it's never
1:30:48
hugely rivet and exciting it's not like big carart chases do and shootouts all every two minutes and people run away
1:30:53
from Fireballs generally quite lowkey solemn sort of detective shows and generally always looks like the
1:31:01
always always looks like the winter and the problem is I have it makes me toes off quite easily you know it's like I
1:31:08
need to like have like you know a kind of a kind of red bolt and maybe start watching it about 5: in the evening I
1:31:14
think it start about 8 I'm you know 9:00 I'm going to see one episode at best yeah fair so yeah Fair then we reach our
1:31:22
last one um so uh oh no I might have even done this uh because it was Cornish
1:31:27
moose wasn't it and I feel like I've said the words Cornish moose yeah definitely remember them being oh yes
1:31:33
this was he snuck in a second one as for oh Cheeky Monkey he said as for remain
1:31:38
support for specialist games needs to remain and expand epic necromunda Horus
1:31:43
heresy uh these are really knocking it out the power card my fingers crossed for a BFG uh Revival in the near future
1:31:51
oh B Gothic so yes I think it would be lovely
1:31:56
um for for the more specialist games to yeah well the more to receive more
1:32:01
because we're all in it for fun aren't we and the more things out there that that you know increase your serotonin
1:32:09
yeah then I'm I'm all for it doesn't necessarily mean I want to play play them but you know I I I am very happy
1:32:16
even though I'm only a casual Observer of the Horus heresy game I'm really happy to that they've done they released
1:32:23
a sneak peek of um the solar auxiliary are coming out and they did a they did
1:32:30
on them silhouette sneak peeks the other day of of a sentinel and and one of the Troopers so that's cool and and and I'm
1:32:37
like good cuz even as somebody who just casually looks at it I am a get bit bored of seeing Marine versus Marine yes
1:32:45
so the idea now that they're going to you know start bringing uh another another and the great thing about them
1:32:51
as well you you can still play them as good guys or bad guys you know how how they what Marine chapter they H what
1:32:57
Marine Legion they are supporting so yeah yeah so I'm glad that there's more of that coming out and yeah I I think
1:33:05
um I I want all you know going back to our original very first question was it or near enough was uh uh old world
1:33:12
fantasy yeah I want it to do well because I want there to be maximum amount of enjoyment for people to have
1:33:18
things out there you know whether it does or not is another story but yeah
1:33:23
games out a smaller game supported all for it yeah yeah continue There we go
1:33:30
that's it I think I've got through all the questions that have been sent to us so far yes indeed if you've made it this far thank you very much for watching uh
1:33:36
we have an incredible patreon Community uh and we'd be thrilled if you're able to join us put no pressure um right
1:33:46
lunchtime I think it definitely is lunchtime I'm sure I can hear a chip sandwich call on my name oh yes I might
1:33:52
even get fish and chips I'm that hungry oh wow oh lovely right thank you very much byebye bye bye

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