Wet Palettes Offer Zero Control? Tommie Soule

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this video is sponsored by Squarespace hello I'm Jeff and I'm Ross I'm Patrick
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and today we're very honored to be joined by the amazing Tommy Su
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hello cheers for having me like genuinely thank you for making the journey across the penines because I'll
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do it as many times as you need to I'm up for it don't say that don't say that said it I said it he get to that point
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where he's changed his mobile number very quickly uh thank you very much especially because you have made this our most
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northernly ever episode of this of this show going north the Northwest has being
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quite well represented for the first time and then we go further up we've got Newcastle and then we've got kumria
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kumria so we're we're we're covering the north of England very well today and a variety of accents and a variety of
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accents which is never a bad thing we might need to translate some of this for our Southern listeners we'll do we to figure it out
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get cultured enough anyone's got any questions they can put it in the comments yeah absolutely right I know I'll certainly have some colloquialisms
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that might need explaining that's not a bad thing so as people will probably notice one of
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the reasons that you come on the show today is because your your good friend
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being Dave Taylor Dave yeah yes he uh he grabbed old me adepticon and said would
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you have my mate on uh he's got a book dedicated to his work along with some
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other amazing artists and he'd love to have him on the show and talk more about that and we thought that sounds like an
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amazing idea and here you are so before we delve into how the book came about and
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relationship with Dave and whatnot how did all this start uh hobby wise yeah um sometime in
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the'80s um I was in Plymouth and I saw a shop that had lots of these weird packets of
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uh things I ended up buying a a blister pack of dwarf ancestors and I re I
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reckon I was in single figures in age I didn't really know what I was buying or anything like that but yeah glued the
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plastic arms on these metal models which I thought was weird at the time um and I
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basically use them as toys until my cousins then gave me a load of their old war stuff and this might have been 1988
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or 89 so so really early this is this is start and
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um painted with air fix paints as a lot of people did or maybe still do I would
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say maybe did it's not common anymore is it not so much now you don't see yeah I mean Tamia Tamia paints are making quite
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a a Resurgence into the into the hobby I don't know if it's a Resurgence is the
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right word because the Tammy paints have been around for a long time but I've recently started using them for
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airbrushing and they're amazing yeah can imagine a bit different now as well I suppose cuzz uh they're still like
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solvent based really wow crazy yeah I think you're talking humra though back
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in the day yeah humel and Tammy I had both cuz I did the I did airit kits as
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well as um you know like monster Beals but the the monster trucks and what have you the monster beet being the one that
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I remember in a lunch box if you remember what the lunch box is you like the the Dodge fan whatever is and but
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the small battery powered ones as opposed to the larger scale radio controlled ones
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um so I had I had all the paints for all them um yeah and as time went on um AO
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Quest happened a little bit um but it was the main the proper start was when
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we were passing Games Workshop Manchester which was on Brown Street for those that are old enough to remember um and I was passing it with me
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Mom and it was all the shelves of paint models that caught me eye in particular
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and I'd love to know who this guy is and if he's watching you know somebody is watching there was a a diarama with an
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lar Phantom Titan in in the cabinet in window in the Brown Street Manchester store um and it was painted in that
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metallic red and I always remember the name on the plinth was Ash and I don't know who this ash guy is but it
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absolutely captured me imagination so when we went and it kind of took off from there um yeah my mom would take me
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do you know my mom's massively responsible for all this um yeah she take me to games days she take me to the
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store she take me to um games nights you know Thursday nights yeah she just
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helped me out with it all essentially do you know of all the guests we had that's probably the first time we've heard them
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a mom being mentioned as being responsible it's a lot of times it's older it's older brothers or cousins but
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it's never we've never had one being the big driving force to to getting into the
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hobby which is really really nice to hear you know what right I love my mom she's helped me out a lot know and I've
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needed a lot throughout my life cuz I'm what 46 now and I know I don't look
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it but I uh yeah she did she she helped me out with everything you know whether
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it be trips to Black pool trips to Natural History Museum in Manchester um yeah they're all they're
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all my memories of me Mom and I hope she's watching this she's at the age where she's kind
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of looking back and wondering how good a mom she is or was and she's awesome
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so tell you what if you meet me Mom I reckon you'd agree but a few years ago she got me to uh she said were you just
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kneeing up my hair for me and [ __ ] I gave her a full-on tank girl and she still got it to this day so
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she's blonde she's got a just a strip of air up the middle and she she's kept it she's she's can I say [ __ ] our booger
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yeah there we go yeah so she's rad as
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[ __ ] she sounds awesome yeah she is brilliant so if you're out there and you're a mom please
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subscribe oh you mothers yeah yeah oh fantastic start
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so it's important that you know you're both in a safe space and what you say
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here today won't go beyond these walls lovely Susan thank you you know it just feels like he's building walls that's
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absolutely Preposterous it's only CU you constantly barraging me with this Siege of emotion yeah well he only has one
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thumb and hates all his children your Primark okay there's a lot of tension
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yeah cuz he said that we can't be friends again uh because uh my chapter
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fell to ruin his powers uh but then he said if I built him a website with Squarespace then um then that would be
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fine and I built him this amazing website okay tell me about the website
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fluid engine and online stores and stuff is great I mean it's a really good website and he asked me to build it and
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I did um and then um yeah we we're still still still not
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friends it makes me sad I said I wait for him is there anywhere you can get a
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discount on such a thing uh yeah quite easily uh if you just go to squarespace.com for a free trial um when
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you're ready to launch go to squarespace.com theep painting phase to save 10% off your first purchase of a
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website or domain it's that easy well if someone had built me a we side like that
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I think I'd be friends with them um no hold on a minute you can see why this is why I build walls everywhere the two of
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you are Preposterous how when did you feel like you sort of made the jump from it just just painting them and being a
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little bit of a thing to start to going do you know what I think I can really start knuckling down into this ah I tell
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you what I think there's kind of a there's a few points with that okay because there's there's my natural
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enthusiasm as a kid for doing things and improving at things then as that kid
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gets older then comes the idea that hang going a minut I can do this as a job to
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whatever degree and I get that at multiple points in the last 25 years as
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well you know so that's that's I suppose that's the story still ongoing well it's
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funny because that bit is a bit that sounds a bit familiar to James tarot was a bit like that wasn't he James was was
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a bit like I really love this and oh I actually could go to university and study to become a model maker and and
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and then and then you know how he was doing things kept coming back to eventually all roads lead back to Games
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Workshop in a way or or hobby painting to be yeah yeah yeah yeah it that I mean
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that's another conversation in itself see I will come back multiple times go on with myself a lot about this as you
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probably Le with us there's not long structure so you just do whatever so like I I
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I I was inspired as a lot of people were by pictures in whitew and the old army
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books um and I want to emulate Mike mcvey's work in
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particular then I mean but at that time I didn't really know who Mike McVey was
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it then turned into what why 12 was it
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one 39 or something like that I had Tim prow was working it and Tim prow became
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your favorite painter um and really try to emulate his work a lot I actually wish I brought some of those models with
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me actually cuz I could show you um how I progressed some of it's on my Instagram
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as well so you can go and look there um but there was a every metal Road show
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something that should still happen I think and I got to sit and watch Tim prow paint Tim prow and Nigel Stillman
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and I sat there I wasn't as gobby as I am now I was a lot quiet I had to reforge myself multiple times and as a
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professional and I got to sit and watch Tim prow paint a model from start to finish I also got to sit and watch Nel
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still Stillman do the same and I'm sorry Nigel right but I got to see the right
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way of doing it and the wrong way of doing it at the same time and I learned
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a lot just from sitting and watching um so Tim prow was a massive massive influence on me because what I did then
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was um I bought the same paint same brushes same model when om and C copied
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it and that that that model is definitely on me Instagram it's like a a chaos sorcerer with a bone armor red or
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orange robes and blue sword and a lot clicked in that moment you know but like
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I'm going to preface everything about painting and me by saying I I put the work in a lot of people would say
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natural Talent this that and the other and I'll justify why not later on as well if it comes up because it's
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important like I I'd say if if I did have something that was more natural and I really try to think about why this is
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is it's the ability to pay attention and that because you've read the book you
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you you'll know what I mean by that and I've refined that over the years the ab if you refine your ability to learn then
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what can't you learn yeah and and that was what I had as a young age I had the ability to pay attention and go right
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what am I looking at there yeah outside of a opinion and then go right well how do I get that within
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logical thought processes instead of or you have to be artistic to do that
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that's not a logical thought process see what I mean so so as as a young kid I
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had that idea is setting me head already for whatever reason um I have thoughts
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as to why that is as well I still don't think that's necessarily a natural thing but it's a product of things that happen in your life um so if you if it can
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happen to me it can happen to anyone and if it can happen randomly and you can isolate it then you can make it happen
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deliberately I would say yeah you know so blah blah blah blah blah watch Tim
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proud paint a lot of things fell into place as a young teenager and then I just started going from there just but
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let me make this really clear as much as I was driven by the end result that
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everybody else had created doing the process was what
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interested me and excited me and through doing the process this is so important for anyone wanting to learn or anyone
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who thinks he can't do it doing the process is what gets you the results being in love with the results does not
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get your results yeah yeah yeah yeah so true the process gets you the results
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love the process there again is another big conversation yeah I the I think on
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about four times about honestly right I I I would love to get all this off my
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chest before the Dare die I genuinely would genuinely you know cuz I mean
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could have write a second third fourth book I've thought about it um but it's
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like therapy to me this it's like immediate gratification you know so yeah I hope
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that answers your question yeah that's fine it was interesting what you said there as well like how you and probably
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you you may see this from the other perspective being a miniature painting tutor yourself is when you said you were
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watching guys paint and actually seeing it like as much as there are thousands
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now of YouTube videos of like oh you paint this you do that then you do the edge actually watching someone and
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actually being there and seeing the process in person answers so many questions that you can't see in a
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YouTube video like like how thin is my paint what direction of the brush strokes and I think a lot of those
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things are the stuff that nobody talks about except for it as you say I've read your
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book those are some some of the key fundamentals but not all of them that you go through in that process is the
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thought process that isn't conveyed unless you're there viewing it is
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somehow something that you've actually managed to capture and communicate that so few others do thank
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you yeah well well yeah thank you because that that that is the point of
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it is is to really take someone through an experience yeah not so the point of the book is not to tell somebody what to
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do yeah but get them to experience through their own imagination cuz the
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point is right um to get good at something you need to
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change your behavior yeah yeah well that's in here yeah these two places
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like you've got to really want to do it be excited to do it or threatened to do it
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so right it's in here and then you've got to understand what it is Define it
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and then you've got to execute it but your behavior has to change inside and therefore outside but if I can't change
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your behavior inside then your behavior outside probably isn't going to change so that's why the book is written in a
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way that takes a hobbyist of any level CU yeah yeah it does you know really any
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level right um through an experience to realize the truth as opposed to
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um what the rest of the world quite I think quite innocently and ignorantly like it's innocent ignorance like if
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nobody knows then it's not their fault is it yeah you know through quite
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innocent ignorance what gets passed down through our hobby is have a product based
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development in other words buy this it makes you better or Dogma based
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information which is paint should be thin to the
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consistency of milk see what I mean enough with the
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bloody milk sorry I'm going to swear now I'm sick so and while that is while while
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while milk is a useful consistency it's certainly not going to save you in 80%
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of other situations so you know from from all the way to straight out the pot
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to thin to pretty much water you know what what consistency in that Spectrum
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isn't practical yeah so the question is is well if it they're all practical how do
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you use them all how do you isolate them all how do you know when yeah and on and on and on and on and on yeah you know
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and then you'll find ones that you prefer for a different jobs whatever jobs they may may not be and off you go
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but that's that that's what I mean by so I'm getting all mixed up now because I do this so you get sold this idea of a
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product or a let's call it a a method
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yeah you know and those methods are there to save you but they're not unless you change you around those methods and
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you understand their methods a bit more deeply you know cuz cuz a parrot can
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say um consistency in milk don't know why I don't know how you know you can
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teach a machine just these protocols you know but they they don't necessarily create art another one's like two Thin
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coats that's not a dig at anyone who may go by that that's why I avoided saying it so cheers for bailing
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out harly say but no it's it's you know it's it's it's a good like Slap Chop they're good enough catch all terms but
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like you say they are they are a piece of a wider puzzle and if you I think your your book goes into if you
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understand this to a deeper degree if you're willing to and you understand behaviors of
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these activities and and the products you use like paint to a deeper degree there's a lot of this you don't
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necessarily need but that will accelerate you ahead further yeah yeah CU because what once you understand or
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as i' saying the book or to enemy students once you're aware of what choices you have to make factually and
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physically then it really does come down at you yeah but how do you know what choices to make if you're not educated
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in what the facts are around those choices is you know whereas whereas
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consistency in milk whilst is a fact is just a thin sliver of all your options so you're not
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making a choice too in coats is um a catchphrase yeah dunan use a lot so and
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it and it absolutely attracted the attention of the world of our Obby so became a part of the Obby and like no
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one's kind of a blame about cuz that's human behavior yeah yeah but that in
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itself is it's not going to save you you save you you know not like some rebound
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Christian around that sorry that's right kicking him in the knee under the table by um but the point is is you save you
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using that information you either use that information to avoid something you don't want or to achieve something you
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do want both pieces of information are fantastic or the opposite depending on
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what your objectives are and if you understand the properties of your objectives you can tailor make your path
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to him and if you're not educated in how to step on the stones on that path you'll
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fall in BG of Eternal Sten and there you go yeah
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the so where where do you think um obviously you talked about um seeing the
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model being painted and and then copying that at home um after sort of after that
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how how do you feel like you're what was the path of your education I guess is the question that I'm with yeah
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paint a lot because I enjoyed it yeah that that that's the biggest biggest
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um rock of all I would say and that is regardless of results whilst I always
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push myself I love painting of all levels you know so so again anyone
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that's been following me scaven army you'll know I've just been doing basic called dry brush wash um which has
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existed for billions of years by the way before even slap jop ideas popped around yeah you know so it's the the these
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standards like that that dry brush ging excites me yeah it absolutely excites me
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and then as I've just dve rush two or 3K worth of scaving Clan rats and whatever else you know then comes the figure out
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of the um the Army me um what you call him plague priest that's the guy um then
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I get to pull out all my stops on that but on the way I'll have various unit Champions or lesser characters and I
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kind of half pull out the stops on them so so one thing about me is I'm very much an army painter yeah as opposed to
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a displaced standard painting which people have seen me as yeah you know and within Army painting you do a
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very good job of pretending to be D know yeah yeah you're like yeah bronze G
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demon whatever and was it sorry yeah just to go yeah bronze golden Dem whatever sorry
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we we briefly talked about this before your bronze golden demon was was almost a bit of it like you weren't even
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intending to enter is that is that right yeah yeah I I I I didn't
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um like you're an accidental is it fair to say an accidental golden demon winner
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just by so so so Mamon sent me a message he wanted to meet me and thereby
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he wanted to buy me a ticket to um wara Fest whichever one it was 2018 sometime
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and I was like that's really nice so I I'll T some of models up take him to him
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and let him choose which one goes into golden demon um so he chose Ragnar and I
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spoke to the guy I said look you know here's my situation what category do I go in and he said you have to go in
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staff category because I was kind of kind of at the time was caretaker in a lot of stores so I kind of was and
23:49
wasn't a staff member sometimes I did it with and without a contract so uh really interesting place to be and thank you
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Gareth for helping me with all that by the way Gareth go who Gare is okay if if he's watching thank Gare great and
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Prince as well you yeah um so um yeah ended up in the staff category and yeah
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got me a got me a a bronze bronze golden demons and I was crazy surprised you
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know because there's still many things not necessarily wrong about it but I
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mean I know there's things that can be improved on that M big time and I was still given feedback by the heavy metal
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team um on what to improve as well so that that taught me a lot about you know
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what you can get away with but but it tells you a lot about
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the power of certain parts of a paint job essentially yeah because there's a lot of psychology involved in in
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creating a pain job and if you can excite somebody so much that certain things are are overlooked or seen as
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part of the thema thing then the these things play towards you um play towards
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your objectives so I know like you you kind of you look at a miniature and you're always drawn to the face yeah um
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like what if it's painted right yeah yeah yeah like what what would be an example of something that you could get
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away with
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oo like I'm going to enter a competition anytime soon but it's it's interesting
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yeah yeah it's it's it's a very it's a very interesting thing without enticing
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the people that would say yeah but I would I would catch that I would care about that and blah blah blah blah blah
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blah blah but there were many models you know so I'm a judg at salute I get to look at I this year the level was high I
25:40
get to look at a lot of models and there's some parts of some models that in the opinions are some judges yeah
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maybe mine included maybe not I'm not kind of going to be too specific but there are parts of some winning models
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that can be seen as unpainted yet depending on which judge you look is looking you you might see
25:58
that as a ambient light or Shadow or whatever you know and some judges see
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the value in that and other judges will jump on it yeah you know but the the
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trick with being a a miniature painter you kind of got to wear two sets of eyes
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all right so and this works with nonm you've got to have the set of eyes of the audience you've got to go into the
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show like you were an audience at a magic show yeah you're looking for the magic
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but if you weren't baffled by the magic it's not much of a show you have to go in and be baffled by the magic and that
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way you get the most excitement as an audience member yeah as a miniature
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painter if you only baffled by the magic how do you know you're doing it right yeah yeah yeah yeah see what I mean so
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it's cuz like non-mets isn't an accident yeah you know good painting isn't an accident it takes a lot of deliberate
26:57
actions so you've got to know what you're doing as a matter of fact you've got to know how the trick works but
27:02
here's the other thing the other end of the scale is if you know how the trick works on such a technical manner if you
27:08
can't step back into the audience's feet and see if the magic has worked then how do you know if you've done it right even
27:14
if you do have the technical skills you see what I mean yeah so you need two sets of eyes wow yeah I know it's crazy
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is it so you need to know how to do it technically but you need to know if the magic has worked
27:27
otherwise when you put it out there uh you know you don't know what your audience is going to experience so with those two eyes a painter will look at a
27:34
piece and decide whether the magic has worked with a with a part or magic
27:40
hasn't yeah a lot of topend painters it won't work with us because we can
27:45
already see it so top end painters understand what's happening
27:50
yeah you know and this this is a discussion that I've had with a couple of members of the heav metal team because they do the same thing you know
27:56
you you might sh some work on a belt or a a holster or a shadow under there or yeah or or
28:03
whatever it may or may not be you know in fact let's get ring come on right if
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I said that woled in there was not really painted that much would you agree no not in the slice of oh God I was
28:14
trying to there's not much there's not much shade in our highligh in it on that oh
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oh sorry yeah I'm looking at in my defense I was looking at the wrong wol also yeah you're right there's not a
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lot going on yeah there's not a lot going on because I didn't put that much effort into it because this was for an
28:31
army this was Army standard Ian it's not Army standard painting but this was for me army and I was doing it for pleasure
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not for competition I I yeah you know the the love of the hobby comes first
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yeah trophies are a product yeah of that love Yeah but if you love the trophies and not the bit in between you're not
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going to get there you'd be one of these frustrated OBS which actually meet quite a lot yeah believe it or not that's I
28:55
think one of one of the interesting ones that and I think that's it um I don't know whether it's a captain or and I'm going to say this to Wi Jeff up uh
29:02
Lieutenant um the uh I know um is it the guy at the front can I can I pick him up
29:08
without go for it just grab it grab it I'm not precious about hopefully I you might not be but I am like having looked
29:14
at these for like again it's a couple of years now your book's been out and I've been a follower of your Instagram for
29:20
longer than that uh but seeing these in person does not compare and hopefully we can get a onscreen little spinny thing
29:27
of this but my favorite part of it that is so many people leave the back of a
29:32
cloak or or copy the front but you've actually painted as though the front of the cloak
29:40
is stitched and you can see the depth of the front stitching through the back but
29:45
it's in monotone which is yeah that that's like and it it's it's little
29:51
things like that that are like wow that is such like you say it's about you've got surely that's an example of like
29:58
you've kind of got to see the magic as the audience would see it like you've sat there and looked at the back of that
30:03
cloak and had a looked at the back of the cloak and gone it's blue I'll painted blue no one's going to look anyway but you've gone actually what
30:10
would this actually look like what would stand out what would show off the painting ability what there's so many
30:16
like you say variables and questions that you've gone through in your head that I wouldn't even consider yeah yeah
30:22
yeah I've never seen that done right I've never seen someone paint the reverse I always put some on the back of
30:28
army army banners I've never seen someone paint the back of the stitched in badging before that's the back of the
30:35
pattern on the front on the yeah it's it yeah so it's one of the ones in the book
30:41
where I just I remember going through it and I flick through it again this cuz it's been a couple of years since I've read through it and I flick through it
30:46
again this morning I like oh I remember that yeah that's brilliant but it really does stand out those differences those
30:51
DET that minu of detail but you've got that one thing like you say you go through you talk you talk about right
30:58
you've got to know your considerations let's call them let's just ballart everything like the considerations you
31:04
make and a lot of people will go in and their considerations are well this needs to be yellow so I'll paint it pink and
31:13
white then I'll Overcoat it with yellow then I'll wash it then I'll Edge highlight it whereas your considerations
31:19
go down as low as okay I've got this yellow how do I get that to the right
31:26
consistency to apply apply to this surface and and it even goes there so
31:31
like various considerations at every stage and it talks a lot about awareness
31:37
of like the being more deliberate with every action as every action as opposed
31:43
to as opposed to okay well today we're going to do this then we're going to layer that then we're going to glaze
31:49
this and everyone's like oh I know what glazing layering is and it's like technically it's the same thing but thinner but not and it's yeah it oh God
31:58
um but yeah obviously you you teach it like are there some I supposed to take it in a bit of a different direction
32:04
from what I've been talking about are there some things that shock you at all like when you teach like that come
32:11
across as oh why are people learning this way or or like things that are
32:17
holding people back that they don't even realize um nothing shocks me anymore in
32:24
that well like I've had to learn lot of humility dare I say it I mean whether
32:30
people believe that or not it's up to them but I've had to learn a lot of humility and uh compassion for all me
32:37
students there are things that bug me a little bit MH for example if if a
32:42
student comes to me and say I want to learn and I basically have a conversation with say right in order to learn some things need to change and
32:49
every student is like yeah then actually these things don't change the more and more
32:56
student who comes to see me does that that that starts to Gren me a little bit
33:01
because and this is kind of nobody's fault at the same time
33:10
because if someone's coming to me and they're having fun and that's the job done yeah really the the the rest is
33:17
kind of none of my business I'm there to show a bunch of information to some
33:22
people and what they then do with that after me is up to them and I'll encourage cuz I just want to see people go where I think they should go yeah
33:29
yeah which is which is a little bit arrogant cuz people should go where they want to go with this hobby because it's
33:35
their hobby it's not my hobby you know my hobby is my hobby but yeah that but
33:40
that's the truth is it yeah get what you mean you know so so but but when someone
33:46
approaches someone like me for a painting lesson um and then they don't use that
33:51
information that I find that strange and that's got to be understandable you know it's got to be understandable and but
33:58
some people just it's that that method is good enough for them the experience
34:04
as it stands is is enough of an experience that they feel like they've had a good time and and that's great
34:11
um is there anything that shocks me no I don't think so
34:17
um I I could say because the conversation comes out of me a lot I've already said it here but the amount of
34:24
dogma and product based Solutions out there that are presented as the only
34:29
solutions that you must have that kind of drives me nuts cuz it's like seeing the Matrix in it like when when you see
34:36
things for what they are you know wet pallets are one I've I've gone on about quite a lot and I lot of people disagree
34:41
me this that and the other but there's there's a certain factual uh algorithm that wet pallets
34:49
follow and when you understand for example tray water yeah phone some kind of paper
34:59
capillar action yeah paint on the top water gets fed up through capillary
35:05
action in the paint keeping it diluted to whatever degree and then the last bit
35:11
is evaporation so all those aspects are there as a matter of fact not my opinion
35:17
they are all happening yeah but the thing is like that rate of
35:23
dilution how do you control that in the moment
35:28
like how much control you have scale of 1 to 100% how much control you have of that rate of dilution in the moment or
35:35
could turn the airon down but how much control do you have yeah put a number on it anyone like
35:43
now zero yeah CU you can't argue with science can you are you so is this uh if
35:48
I'm to interpret this correctly are you coming out as anti- web palette or uh I'm not anti- web palette I I Am pro
35:55
seeing the facts oh very good right see the facts and then make an educated
36:00
decision yeah right so if one of the biggest mysteries and biggest struggles
36:06
that painters have on the Internet is how to control consistency why would you choose a tool that allows you 0%
36:18
control might just have to go another light down Tom right but that that's not my opinion
36:25
about the wet pal now the is you could put less water in choose a different sponge choose a different paper and
36:32
learn to use the tool but once that tool is set there's no in the moment control
36:37
and generally what you might end up doing is you might end up taking the paint you've got um being saved on on a
36:43
wet palette and move it to a dry palette to manage in a more yeah deliberate way you like your thumb which Liam Hearn
36:50
experienced on one of my coures one time um cuz he was Pro wet palette I no and then he realized that actually his thumb
36:56
was a dry palette and that's what he was doing every time yes so the point is
37:04
is he now uses his work palette in a more deliberate way I'm not sure if he
37:09
still uses one or not but then I can hear a bunch of people oh yeah but it's I live in the Sun and I need a wet
37:16
palette well like I mean it's been 40 degrees in Manchester the last few years I still paint you know I kind of troll
37:23
sometimes a little bit on me Instagram and I it's sun shining time to get get the dry palette out and do some pain but
37:30
as much as that's a little bit of a arrogant trolley thing the point is is what skills have I learned that enable
37:37
me to paint in all temperatures cuz I'm not special I've just learned a skill set and how I've
37:45
learned that skill set is what I pass on because the so you can imagine now what
37:52
kind of tiny ass skills do I have that enable me to manage paint and water on a
37:58
black pette you know a warm pallette that what do I know about
38:04
consistency and how a manage paint that enable me to paint as well as a paint as a matter of fact like what what
38:10
do what do I know and what what have I developed and if I had have used a wet pallet what skills would I have not
38:18
learned yeah you see what I mean this it's just a fact to it it's not my
38:24
opinion and that's that's kind of that how I teach what what people think and
38:29
what people do outside of facts is is up to them as artists and people individuals and blah blah blah
38:36
and this is what excites me as a painter so I I like skills like personal skills
38:43
that's what I like if there's a tool that does the job I'll consider it like
38:48
do I want a Ferrari for going fast or do I want to be a good runner I want a Ferrari yeah but somebody who wants to
38:55
be the fastest man on the planet using his leg legs he going to train his legs he's not going to train his
39:01
trainers you know what I mean he's going to yeah yeah yeah he's going to train his legs and I bet he's still fast
39:07
regardless of what shoes he wears you know it's cuz he trained himself you know so that's how I look at it you know
39:14
and that's not to say let's use a different example that's not to say I'm going to use a [ __ ] brush I actually
39:19
want the best brush cuz there are some things I don't skimp on you know but
39:26
again what's the best brush is it the brush YouTube told me to choose or is it the brush that I am educated on I look
39:32
and I go is this a good brush let's try it and I will choose a good brush in I I
39:38
will go to element games get the brushes take the things off cup of water I will choose my brush just cuz somebody said
39:46
element games are the best brushes AR I won't just have them now element games
39:51
I'm saying it right here right now that's the ones I use yeah Oh you mean the the actual element
39:58
character regiment you don't really need much more I've got some with me I hope think I packed them but yeah yeah
40:04
absolutely um great brushes yeah fantastic I have a link on me Instagram
40:12
yeah but you're right though it's like you know people talk about tools and like I again I I spent a lot of time in
40:18
the early years what's the best now I've wrote a lot of Articles what's the best this and the the preface to every
40:23
article that nobody reads is there is no such thing as the best no there's only ever what's the best for you and you've
40:30
you unfortunately like if you want the best brushes you've got to try a variety and practice with so like I know you
40:36
were a big fan of the broken toad for a while massive until they disappeared yeah unfortunately yeah very different
40:43
experience using a broken tow brush though like more so than any other brush on the market and they the uh they can
40:49
kind of take you by surprise I actually have I've got my last two sets they kind of hermetically sealed for the time I
40:56
actually decide to to push me skills again which might ever be never I mean I
41:02
am enjoying the Elman games ones a lot at the moment yeah you know it's interesting because we've um
41:09
we've done some videos that are product based and and I think at the start of it
41:14
it was sort of like you know a lot of hobbyist said on the lookout for a product that
41:20
will like improve their painting you know slow improver TR retarder yeah that
41:26
kind of thing to me yeah and and there was some really like
41:32
funny stuff that we did like you know certain certain kind of drills um there was a a a splatter tool which is like
41:39
four toothbrushes um attached to like you know welded together um and and you
41:46
you you often like I think they quite youtuby type type products like
41:52
streaking Grime was a big one and it's great if it's a certain look that you want to go for but you still I guess
41:58
still have to learn how to to use it and all that sort of stuff yeah here's the thing you know like if you're having fun
42:04
using whatever it is you're using and you're doing it right like whatever I've got to say is bollocks but but it's true
42:10
in it because it's a hobby it's not Tommy rules the [ __ ] world or or whoever a painter do you know what I
42:16
mean it really isn't you know but I do see people buying all this [ __ ] they
42:22
come to me for lessons or they're on the internet and still not getting anywhere and they're still un happppy well you need to look at yourself and look at
42:29
your skills and look how you manage I spell it out here how do you manage your
42:34
consistency how do you manage your loading of your brush and how do you apply it to your model you improve any
42:41
of them three things I guarantee your results will improve you improve all them three things I guarantee your
42:47
results will improve drastically yeah you continue to improve only them three things and you can do whatever the [ __ ]
42:53
you want with a brush that that's that why because that's all I do yeah so that
43:00
that's just a fact that that's just if I can do it and I'm just some kid from Manchester you
43:08
know then anyone can do it because it is as simple as that yeah you know but it
43:13
doesn't make it easy so I like I liken it to um a TI walk tiro walk is Left
43:18
Foot Right Foot Left Foot Right Foot all the way easy
43:27
no it's not simple as what it is you know but here's the interesting thing if you are
43:33
excited about the result then why don't just climb down and climb up the other side and stand there da what a [ __ ] show
43:40
yeah what what a [ __ ] performance so we come back to the do you want be the audience member do you
43:46
want to B the perform you need to be both yeah yeah you have the audience you have to learn that TI road walk you know
43:54
you have to learn it if you want a wow an audience mm some people will wow an audience with results you know that
44:01
maybe they got out a can or an airbrush or whatever it may may or may not be yeah and if they had fun with that and
44:07
an audience is wild and they make some money and they get some Applause or likes or whatever it is then job done
44:13
yeah but at the same time I want to walk the tight rope I want to do a flip halfway I want pretend to fall off and
44:18
[ __ ] everyone up [ __ ] me up a little bit because that that's that's the journey is't it what an exciting Journey yeah
44:25
you know so as much as tiro walk is simple it's not easy you know but that
44:30
excites me yeah that excites me it excites me to do it excites me to watch
44:35
so painting miniatures as much as you might think it's linear you now imagine
44:40
watching that TI Ro Walker go from A to B and not do anything just got to the other side you go all right yeah I got
44:46
to the other side and then you see the guy who pretends to fall off the guy who actually does fall off and what what an
44:52
exciting show process is well better yeah process is well better also as supposed to some degree is you want to
44:59
be able to walk that tight RPP pretend to fall off yeah and other tight RPP Walkers go the way he pretended to fall
45:06
off there by 10 and that foot of that yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so this is what painting good paint judge will be able
45:12
to see all that yeah like so when you have these these skills in place these three skills it's like kind of your eye
45:20
becomes like an automatic Hanes manual if you know a Hanes manual so all of a sudden you look at a paint job it just
45:25
goes exploded back in in an instant and you can just see it so like if you're a um a painting
45:32
competition you think judge hasn't looked at your model probably has he's probably seen all he needs from afar and
45:38
if you were to have a one toone painting lesson with me you'll have an experience like that like I'll be in the kitchen
45:43
Brewing up I like You' just you put too much water on your brush how the [ __ ] does he know for me because I can tell
45:48
by your posture yeah and you ask any of me students this and I did it this week
45:53
I was like yeah I'm stepping away so I'm over me student I don't know what
45:59
the levels are like I'm over me student walk by and I spot him and I go right you need to do two brush stropes on your
46:06
palette because you've got a flat tip on your brush you need trying to paint a line about quar of a mil wide yeah it's
46:12
got a flat end on his brush yeah which you can't have he needs to have a sharp end on his brush and he's got it
46:17
overloaded well how can I tell from how can I tell how can I tell from up there
46:24
you know there's a lot of things that tell me whether it be posture whether it be just the way the brush looks and the
46:30
me eye is really well developed now cuz your eyes will get better by the way for all those who have eye issues you just
46:36
real I'm surrounded by everyone wearing glasses but your eyes can improve one student like like my eyes just went one
46:45
day and all of a sudden I could see it all and I was like Bingo sorry dog going
46:51
to get you then right but the point is is cuz your eyes are made of muscles aren't they yeah yeah the muscles need
46:58
exercising and it's increment you know it's increment based Improvement but the muscles are going to
47:04
get stronger as it you so when I don't paint for a little bit I'll go but then the more I paint at whatever level I
47:11
start to get closer closer closer cuz my eyes become stronger and more accustomed and when I do that too much I look up
47:17
and I'm like everything's fuzzy and I'll look at the church in the distance out
47:23
of my window so I'd stretch my eyes in the opposite direction so exercise my eyes yeah you know blah blah blah blah
47:29
blah blah blah loads of things I told you I could talk man it's already I
47:34
think I found also 12 things I'm really interested by uh the Hanes manual x-ray
47:40
vision so Ross I've got those blue and yellow dudes when you wear your mouth is no
47:46
just just pick one up just one yeah yeah IDE and then Tommy could you could you destroy it live on camera hes man you
47:53
all that yeah yeah so so we've got a base coat yellow
47:58
airbrush yeah [Music] um Sponge we've got looks like maybe a
48:06
dush there but I'm going to guess still sponge cuz it's a repeated pattern yeah in thereo the
48:15
bit have you see there there's some things here
48:20
you've masked but they're not masked yeah so so yeah so some of the masking I I did it with putty um and then as I
48:29
like peeled it off I was like oh I didn't line that up perfectly so I tried to like cover it with battle damage gone
48:34
back in with a brush and yeah is that enough what you can go to town on it
48:40
yeah so how how might I improve it or like I guess it's like how would I want
48:46
to improve it or so so here's the thing like to me you're going for an army standard level of painting you're going
48:51
for what some people might call Fast Fun and Furious if you worked in Games Workshop retail at any point all right
48:59
um You Want maximum bang for your book and minimal effort that's so that that's what you want and that's apparent by the
49:05
tools you've chosen yeah now what this is is unfinished yes it is unfinished so
49:11
judging this yeah as far as improving it goes yeah is pointless fa because it's
49:18
not finished the moment this is finished I would guess you actually will get excited about enough to call it finished
49:24
therefore it requires no more Improvement yeah yeah so that's one way of looking at it yeah before you before any pain
49:32
I'm going to say this to all the cameras like before you judge the quality of your work finish the model to your level
49:40
yeah if you are not happy with it when it's finished then it's not finished yeah it's not a failed model and you're
49:47
not a [ __ ] painter you've just got areas to develop yeah whether they be on the
49:52
model yeah or in your own skill set yeah and that's that and that's all the re
49:58
that's the fact yeah you're not a [ __ ] painter yeah yeah yeah yeah but it's got
50:03
to be true I C have a little bit of a cry oh man but it's got to be true and it that
50:10
has to be true yeah that might be your thumbnail as well you're not a [ __ ] painter no I think I think the the title
50:16
for this chat the the clickbait title it would be like wet Petes are rubbish I've already used that one I did
50:23
I did I have a little YouTube channel I haven't really updated in in about three or four years but I did a did a wet
50:28
palette I did two maybe three wet palette videos I might not have done the third but I'm not that motivated for all
50:35
that yeah Fame and Fortune you do quite you do quite a lot of Instagram lives though don't you're just talking through
50:41
your process and yeah every now and again I I used to do them more often I'm
50:46
just I'm just less motivated now I'm happy with the students I've got and if new students come in I'm happy to to
50:52
welcome them in and blah blah blah um but for me now Obby is about enjoying it
50:59
and that that if I'm not in a mood to do it then I won't I won't do it I won't do it for money I won't do it for likes I
51:05
won't do it for anything like that's why all the models there are all in that book or before and that was two years
51:12
ago I give a [ __ ] like I don't because it's a hobby not my job anymore I don't have to please a boss I don't have to
51:18
please a commissioner I don't have to I don't have to do any of that cuz it's my hobby and I protect that now and I love
51:25
it actively love it you can talk can I
51:30
talk not often we get people talking over now can I talk a little bit about
51:37
this whole of becoming um a tutor a how how did that start and and
51:45
then ultimately where are you at with that okay right now how did that all
51:50
become a thing so I work for G Workshop retail a lot
51:57
Manchester um and I've done other bits and Bobs kind as favors and little
52:02
passion projects with' been games Ro shop here in there maybe some people know maybe some people don't
52:08
whatever um but when you're a retail staff member you have to teach yeah end
52:14
story so you know when people see me work because I've been painting pretty well for a long time and my style is
52:20
generally match the style to some degree in standard the heavy metal style which has changed over the last 24 years
52:28
alone so when people see me work whether it be staff or customers then generally
52:34
they want to painting lesson for me if it's Saturday events in a store then
52:39
who's going to be running the painting table it's going to be me you know games Ro Shop Manchester probably one of the busiest stores in the business outside
52:46
of head office um so I had like I was
52:51
teaching 10 or 15 people a week you know just at one table in one day in one
52:57
session maybe even two or three sessions actually so I get to teach a lot of people I've taught a mad amount of
53:02
people I couldn't even put a number on it might be four figures might be you know might be thousands of people for
53:07
all I know you know and then as time went on I got better and better and the hobby started to become a little bit
53:13
more prolific through things like cool mini or not yeah I remember that um the amount of hours when I should have been
53:19
working when I had a regular death job where I was just in cool Min on oh that's a seven that's going to be an e
53:26
did that did all that without a doubt and and anyway I start sharing more in
53:31
me processing words there cuz people ask don't they ask and they want to know so
53:36
okay I'll share um but also you get varying degrees of people asking
53:42
questions face to face within a store yeah and then one guy actually said one time Phil my first student who I love
53:48
and I hope he's okay um I've not seen him in a in in quite a while um so yeah
53:55
Phil I hope you're okay whever you you are um he asked if he could pay me for
54:00
private lessons so he became your first private student in around 2009 2010 something like that and then that was
54:07
when I went freelance as a commission painter and and box art painter
54:13
for however many companies um and I
54:18
offered in fact I to my knowledge in fact I was one of the first people that
54:25
start running painting courses um freelance we did what was called Demon Days so we had a the first demon
54:32
day had a couple of heavy metal painters I think Phil D was on I can't quite remember every metal painters and golden
54:38
demon winners um and we basically got everyone in the room and going right is's a bunch of awesome people and a
54:44
bunch of people who want to be awesome or feel they want to be awesome cuz they already are you
54:49
know you know what me right and let's help and then the second demon day was
54:55
me m m at V and was that it yeah that was it uh and then we basically did I
55:04
did on Mets for two hours with one group then they rotate around and go to Ali do
55:10
painting flesh and faces then they go to m m and then they do wet blending or two brush blending should I say um and then
55:17
yeah blah blah blah so we we ran a bunch of events and then I started running my own events which is the fundamentals
55:22
events followed by the uh non Mets events which I mean you had Byron came
55:28
on one this is years ago like when you just started element Byron from element
55:33
came on one Martin Waller Damen Pedley EV metal paino and bunch of people I I'm
55:39
name dropping it I kind of don't normally do that but I feel comfortable enough for a that's you but the point is
55:45
is you know I got a I got to teach a range of people of all levels people
55:52
that are better than me people that weren't better than me and I did in such a way to bring value to those people
55:59
which is part of why that book is written at all levels of painter it's not a beginner book it's a fundamentals
56:06
book it's different so um yeah I got I just got to teach teach teach teach
56:12
teach teach teach and you know the more I painted more I painted the more students I attracted and the more box
56:17
art I did and blah blah blah and you know I never even entered a golden demon
56:23
seriously I had entered once in like 2011 something like that as a laugh
56:28
because Alonso heraldez um he uh he gave him a lift to Golden demon one year and
56:35
he was in the car cheerwing me air off I should enter I'm like I don't have to enter he's like yeah you should you've
56:41
got to support it and I kind of agree with him about supporting paying competitions but nobody has to have a golden demon or anything to be
56:47
successful in this hobby take it from me take it from me like you need a good
56:52
reputation and good work yeah and that's it and that good work can be at any standard base Cod dry brush wash blah
57:00
blah blah and I'm getting a side a so loads of students loads of teaching experience loads of different ways of
57:05
breaking it down into understandable and manageable bites of information and then
57:13
what I started to do was I started to see a pattern regardless of what level of painter I was teaching hang I'm
57:19
teaching the same information I'm not I'm not doing a beginner lesson for a beginner and a expert lesson for an
57:25
expert it's the same lesson how's that so I started to write everything down every lesson recording
57:31
it I was like right where's the pattern I'm looking like a mad scientist had all these notes and it it clicked with me
57:37
one day I wrote me fundamentals course which is what I started teaching um part one and part two over weekends
57:44
fundamentals being part one is how to actually do the the this the [ __ ] that
57:50
counts and then part two would be non-mets which really wasn't non-mets but I used non Mets as the excuse
57:56
it's about how do you use day one's information in a higher standard yeah so
58:01
day two isn't Advanced Techniques it's how do you use the fundamental techniques in more advanced ways big
58:08
difference yeah cuz you're not looking for anything new you're looking to improve the way the tiro Walker places
58:16
his foot CU a big inob about it can't say that anymore can you I can beep it
58:23
out but do you see what I mean it's the same feet it's just how well you place them feet so yeah um I changed my name
58:30
to miniature painting Che or however long ago because I'm not no longer part of a a bigger Studio cuz I was part of a
58:38
a bigger business back then like The Siege before Siege if you will yeah you know um that's a story in itself like
58:46
without that that's that is a roller coaster part of me life like holy [ __ ] it was awful man I mean all I nearly died at
58:54
the end of it for can oh right REM see me scar horrible everything yeah man
59:00
that's massive yeah thank you the scar the scar you like a closer look in a bit
59:06
we'll do that for the patr go all the way9 in yeah got F and everything and
59:13
that that gave me a new point of view on life and painting and hobby and work I can tell you that but it do yeah without
59:18
a doubt so I don't that answers your question but I've got some great people who who come and learn from me so for
59:25
people who are would interesting com and learning from you how often do you do seminars do you travel or do people come
59:32
to you or do you go to different areas around country so I haven't run a course in ages that like that fire to do that
59:39
even though I'm having this conversation now it gets me all giddy like that fire to do that kind of isn't in me at the
59:45
moment but I if somebody said right I want you to run a course will you be here at this time you know we'll pay you
59:51
what you need blah blah blah I'm not going to say no I don't think cuz I love doing it yeah as simple as that I love
59:57
doing it and and I'll travel anywhere you know cuz I've traveled the country and travel past the world at request of
1:00:04
people because it's top why would not want to
1:00:09
so our Miniatures are is is your hobby still keeping the wolf from the door at the moment is is this still your on
1:00:16
mines still your day job if you aren't doing seminars that much to to a degree like I made myself a promise this year
1:00:22
to be a professional musician so so so you know Miniatures
1:00:28
contribute to some degree yeah benefits contribute to another degree because I'm not rich at all I'm just a guy who who
1:00:36
gets by month to month yeah you know and maybe being a musician will help add to
1:00:44
that maybe this podcast will help add to that as well I'm sure it will because all this stuff does um
1:00:51
and there we go I hope that answers your question it does it it helps and but if
1:00:57
if it wasn't there I'd still be doing it because the love is not the
1:01:03
trinkets it's painting goblins in it yeah know like bringing something to
1:01:09
life bring some to life man yeah the more I've painted the more I enjoy the
1:01:16
the process like I've been sort of on a bit of an airbrushing Quest recently um
1:01:22
and I tried it a bit before and didn't do amazingly well but then um yeah got
1:01:29
some tuition from a guy from hard and steam backck and he was like yeah consistency thing you paints this
1:01:35
way these distances and and then having that because he taught you the fist
1:01:41
thing to got out like but he Tau you about distance
1:01:48
of of Fist from model and stuff like yeah yeah and and yeah from what you're talking about earlier like yeah having
1:01:55
having that framework in there and then now I can confidently base coat something or put a highlight on
1:02:01
something with an airbrush or or what have you and I've been having a blast I've been really enjoying it that's like a
1:02:07
pun having a blast it do you do you still surprise yourself in what way do
1:02:15
you still find you you try something you've not tried before or or do something and you go oh well didn't and
1:02:20
then go oh God that really worked you still at these moments where a little bit of experimentation just becomes
1:02:27
something that you go oh do you know I'm now going to add that to my yeah because list of things to do yeah there's
1:02:32
there's a m my painting repertoire is filled with holes like there's things
1:02:39
I'm not good at at all you know F yeah absolutely like me base game like if I
1:02:45
would love to make more bases like so like the miniature monthly I think they've got a Yeah couple of articles on
1:02:51
making bases so that book's next on me list probably for buying you know as and there's other um guides in the other
1:02:59
books as well that I'm I'm sure are going to be useful but I'm just not that familiar with them all just yet um but
1:03:04
the point is is like me base game I would say he weak you know the I say it's subtle oh thank you thank you I but
1:03:13
in some areas mid base game is strong but it's strong within my ballpark in my way to my taste yeah to so I I use what
1:03:22
tools I've got to to maximum ability that doesn't mean that I'm a great Bas maker yeah you know me and
1:03:31
but when it comes to wielding a brush this times I think maybe I could be more
1:03:36
adventurous with certain things but I do things to a level that makes me happy
1:03:42
and then when I'm happy well I'm happy I don't need to do anymore you know so you
1:03:48
might say I've not really flexed that much I dare I say that well there's a
1:03:55
lot of flexion going on from my you know what two that stick out if I'm going to I'm going to show off a little bit I'd
1:04:02
say these two one because that is just paint on flat plastic and that because
1:04:09
that is just a base sanded flat and then you're joking yeah yeah yeah oh my good
1:04:15
the an I thought that was a piece of uh I thought that was a piece of plastic art on that n no no that's what this one
1:04:22
is that guy piece of plastic C plump on and carved but that is just Tommy that's
1:04:29
what feel I think we could we could spend the
1:04:34
rest of the podcast just just slack your Jeffers all of a sudden this has become
1:04:41
ASMR I'll I'll narrate it for our Audio Only listeners do one passing over I'll
1:04:47
I'll take a look afterwards yeah how would it sound if I just rub the base against the microphone like I
1:04:53
go they're ogling yeah Jeff and Ross are UGL bases at the
1:04:58
moment to to say that's just a what is that 32 mil Bas yeah sand it down and then pay
1:05:07
it up and yeah my that's my mind it's it's ridiculous when you've I've already looked at that miniature and gone G A
1:05:14
that stunning and then didn't give the base enough of a look and now I'm looking at the Bas and now just as
1:05:20
impressed by the bass As I Am by all the rest of the Miniatures well you said it you said my base game is subtle and I'll
1:05:26
agree it is subtle but when you lookt doesn't mean bad does it not all really
1:05:32
not yeah cuz like you the bases on the ones that are the Ministries from Blackstone Fortress the way they're like
1:05:39
like a quartz sort of thing going I think tutorial on them didn't you or something you might have done a video or
1:05:45
something did a video on my nigh haunt basis which I kind of like that but
1:05:50
without the the rust peel and all that business but like when when when you look at say gut Rock spew by David soap
1:05:56
and you look at that base oh that's that's which obviously more fact say
1:06:03
that yeah it's Kinder like that I don't do things like that you know and there's
1:06:09
there's a couple of reasons one is motivation I like H Works to be pretty Compact and simple but the other thing
1:06:16
is is I haven't played in that ballpark enough to say that do you know I'm going to make a base I'm going to be really
1:06:22
confident with blah blah blah there is a couple of things where I mean I'm just looking at me my fist on over there
1:06:27
that's a pretty complex base yeah yeah yeah you know um on the screen bit more bit more diaram than but we talked about
1:06:34
this the other week cuz like we after we come back from adepticon and then there was a couple of three weeks later we did
1:06:40
a show about it but the um we were talking about like the models that are entered into demon and like you get the
1:06:47
the things for like single miniature but it's not really single miniature anymore they're more of a diaram and stuff like
1:06:52
that whereas I personally prefer my single is to be like Ragnar was which is
1:06:58
a thing we will we will Dig Down Deeper into is because literally the next if I
1:07:04
spoiler it a little bit the next episode of speaking with uh with a painter will
1:07:10
be will be Neil Hollis yeah Wicked and um and obviously Neil is a a a painter
1:07:16
who very much lives in the large dramatic base and um and you know and
1:07:22
and for better and for worse it has come it this thing about bases and and the setup of Miniatures in in competition
1:07:29
has come up of late and um I think it's quite interesting the whole element of
1:07:35
how much of a miniature is the milit and how much of a militat is the base of I think is I think it it is something that
1:07:41
really divides people I think at the moment with regards to yeah well I'll I'll give you my two cents on that if if
1:07:49
please well he to in it I'll show you my to with all this business
1:07:56
again we're going to bleep that out you might need to fuzz this and
1:08:02
all but um I think the people that get bent out
1:08:08
of shape are the people that feel somehow they've been wronged by a guy doing his Hobby in a way that makes him
1:08:13
happy well that's a good take yeah but how is it not that yeah like say you
1:08:21
know Neils and any artist is doing the Hobby in the way that make them happy and that happy might
1:08:27
be aimed at making a judge happy or winning a trophy or whatever it might be
1:08:32
to promote your business or a painting course or whatever it might be it might just be because you want to do what you
1:08:38
want to do but but we we do what kind of hits our own personal objectives and I think people should be free to do that
1:08:45
now what category should that go in in a painting competition that's down with the judges yeah the the initial painter
1:08:53
might say I'd like it in this category but judge will say yes or no that's stand judges so it's none of our
1:08:59
business we might go well the judges should do it my way but the judges do it their way yeah and that's that because
1:09:06
there has to be a base level doesn't it end of story if whoever thought they knew best on the internet did know best
1:09:14
then they'd be the judge but you're not the judge and there's not enough room for all them people doing that so there
1:09:19
you go there there's just the facts I think people should just be allowed to do the Obby and celebrate as you will oh
1:09:25
yeah but this isn't fair that isn't fair well everyone has the same opportunity as whatever painter entering whatever
1:09:31
competition you know oh well this year it wasn't in this way because that guy you know he had his tail went out too
1:09:38
far and His Banner was too high and [ __ ]
1:09:44
off like if that's going to keep if that's if that
1:09:49
information fuels your hobby towards you being happy and productive in your hobby
1:09:55
towards your own goals which I don't think it does then go for it you know like people
1:10:01
can do with their information what they want to do and that that I think that's the big thing that about me that I think
1:10:07
has changed in the last few years I believe in Freedom let let people do what they want to do and they they'll
1:10:13
reap whatever reward or the opposite as the world sees fit you know and that
1:10:20
that does also include people bitching and moan they're free to do that because you know go for it
1:10:26
yeah you know but painting Karma will get you well well be that either way
1:10:32
yeah well it's that great expression isn't Everyone's entitled to their own opinions you're just not entitled to your own facts yeah yeah yeah yeah
1:10:39
you're not in yeah but well you kind of are if you're searching for him yeah cuz then you can start to craft your life as
1:10:45
you see fit yeah you know whether that be through diet miniature painting [ __ ] playing guitar philosophical
1:10:52
deep and meaningful like you can Chu the C this other but you know we we we we paint TI soldiers some people make money
1:10:59
out of it to whatever degree some people don't but either way we all love miniature painting yeah that's that even
1:11:07
people that don't paint Miniatures put painted plastic on the table don't tell me that you're not interested in having
1:11:13
them painted you want them painted but you're just not for some reason you're either not because you're not paying
1:11:19
someone or you not cuz you're not doing it but whatever reasons underlying but if it wasn't about the imagery you'd be
1:11:26
using counters yeah yeah the imagery is not gray it can be gray some Comics are
1:11:33
gray some uh wmer TV is it's all great
1:11:38
but don't tell me you don't have an image in your head don't tell me you're not
1:11:44
imagining you want it painted yeah you know and it's okay to not but you won't
1:11:50
pain it wow wow
1:11:56
well you do though don't tell tell me you don't tell me you don't you might not want to do it but you want your
1:12:02
imagination wants it yeah you want it yeah CU it's there in the shape of a
1:12:10
goblin two years we've done two in this show I think that must be the most profound thing I think I've said on it so far oh my God it's blown my
1:12:18
mind I I mean I I I don't know I I hope I hope it do you know I just want to
1:12:23
encourage people now go life in so soldiers yeah I'm not it's beautiful how
1:12:30
did your relationship with Dave come about with regards to the book and how do we get a book how you ask da is the
1:12:37
answer how do I get I don't even get all them I've already I've already already marked my uh volume
1:12:44
189 that's what I think I'd be about ready should we talk about these as well yeah that's ex what I want to lead into
1:12:50
so how you know if we talk about how you got to it and then we'll talk about the
1:12:55
of us a thing all right so weird thing about me and Dave is I
1:13:01
was inspired by Dave through American and Australian versions of white dwarf
1:13:06
which were different to UK white dwarfs because Dave's been a very prolific and interesting Army Builder himself hasn't
1:13:12
he yeah and more so if you're involved in those other Regional white dwarfs and
1:13:19
they ran at the same time as a British and European white dwarf but the team was different so therefore the content was different
1:13:25
things like black goo and things like that from the Americans so it was it was really exciting um material like the
1:13:33
generals compendium the F the the thicker one yeah that was was it called the General's
1:13:39
compendium um yeah and the warmer Skirmish booklet do you remember that yeah I remember that all that team
1:13:46
essentially yeah um so Dave was was part of all that and he's a massive Army
1:13:51
converter Army Builder Army painter remember his LS all riding bears oh what
1:13:57
what an army man yeah absolutely fantastic so Dave Dave is that guy
1:14:03
essentially and for whatever reasons he ended up leaving and he started his own
1:14:09
Publishing Company um and he got in contact with me I can't remember whether somebody recommended me but I was kind
1:14:15
of undercover at the time I'm not really that and I'm still kind of not that prolific a painter I would say uh
1:14:23
industry-wise I just kind of like I said do what I do um and he asked me if I'd like to write a book and I said pretty
1:14:29
much that to him I said I don't really paint that much anymore I just teach me students and I might produce something
1:14:35
every now and again or I might get infused by an army for a few months and paint that like I did missg um but I do
1:14:42
have this information that I'd like to share that it's been in me head which is I feel like I should write a book on how
1:14:49
to teach people how to paint you know and he was like okay I'm up for that cuz the books can be whatever you want them
1:14:56
to be and so I said well what I'd like to do first is I'd like to give you a few lessons so you know what it is and
1:15:03
how it is that I'm going to do this and I want I want you to say yeah because you know not because you just blindly
1:15:10
going to let me [ __ ] with your [ __ ] you know what I mean so so yeah two two
1:15:16
lessons he was like yeah let's go so I wrote the book which is my first book writing ever like I really go to school
1:15:22
or anything like that so I did my best you know so I've had to learn how a book
1:15:28
is written and published I had to teach myself every bit blah blah blah I was already pretty handy with a phone camera
1:15:33
so the photography I went which again is a stuns me that the the amazingly lovely
1:15:39
photographs that are in the book which I'm sure P will have edited something into the the show for the viewers to see
1:15:47
it's ridiculous to think that they're photographed on a phone it's amazing yeah I mean like if it was to point out some of the um
1:15:55
telltale signs and I'm sure you go yeah there that is you know but whatever it it's all had it's all I add that like I
1:16:03
had a PC that has I don't think I could hold a half an
1:16:09
hour's worth of video on the PC because the the the memory is that small on it and that's with nothing on the computer
1:16:16
right a computer built for function and not storage yeah so I did me best to to write this book with mobile phone and a
1:16:23
little ass PC like CU I am not technically minded at all like this stuff here this this 3D
1:16:30
prin a 3D printer not a computer so
1:16:35
already well we we give you a little behind the scenes we've got a 3D printer
1:16:41
but we're not technically in minded enough for it and that's why we're one of the reasons that the only reason I'm
1:16:47
here I I'd love to learn I think it's time I got up to date so I recently um I
1:16:52
was I was generously given um a new pc recently um by a student and I mean blew
1:17:01
me mind the generosity that some people show um so now I have a PC powerful
1:17:07
enough but now the only thing I've done is turned it on I don't even know what to do with it
1:17:12
now you know so you know I'd like I'd like to learn music this blah blah blah
1:17:18
blah but Dave we're talking about Dave not Tommy right so so Dave um so I had
1:17:26
this experience with Dave where basically he took me through how to write and publish a book and I submitt
1:17:31
it to him in chunks this that and the other blah blah blah um P me wish I hadn't done a wish I had like really
1:17:36
done full it and then give it him at the end but he needed reassurance that I was
1:17:41
going to hit whatever deadline which I freak freaked me out big time um but
1:17:48
other than that the only other interaction I've had with Dave other than he's been a massive support to me
1:17:54
cuz he knew I was a bit of Ed Case at the time as well and he was like okay I know I know you might be going through a
1:17:59
few things um is do you know the evier metal painting group or what was the
1:18:06
E such a shame yeah I've been I was a member of that for quite a while there was there's a few guys on there that
1:18:13
that do a thing called poppy Angels which is um uh awareness and support for
1:18:19
children with cancer yeah essentially so I painted a reever Titan which was donated to me for that car um I painted
1:18:26
the Reaver Titan for someone to win yeah and um Dave won it and I did not know it
1:18:31
was Dave and when we're having the conversation because this thing had to get posted out to the states wher every
1:18:37
was which cost an arm and a leg which we somehow wangled through some business's
1:18:42
expenses without them knowing um thank you Kelly by the way um
1:18:51
and uh yeah Dave popped up and I said oh I painted a re Titan I'd like that to go
1:18:57
in the book and it's in it's in the book and Dave goes I own that Titan you know I'm like no way so like CU that's the of
1:19:05
of all the models I've never painted for myself that Reaver Titan is one and I painted that as if it was me own you
1:19:12
know and um to know that it's there and that somebody like and respect and is
1:19:19
involving me in some way actually has it just made me giddy so that that's my
1:19:24
experience with Dave um inspiration won a Titan wrote a book with him there you
1:19:31
go that's that's that's what I know about Dave and he's a win in a Titan bit was not what the bit I was exped to be
1:19:36
that's no no no no let's have a look at it cuz that it's easy to find he should be at the back he's got it he's that it
1:19:42
he got it oh look at that wait I I'll see if I can oh yeah cut to myself yay
1:19:48
I'll put a picture up with less Reflections on the screen yeah go on [Laughter] yeah is where put this back in
1:19:56
these if we talk a little bit of these on it was Dave because it was Dave that very kindly pulled the strings and and
1:20:03
asked if we could get you on the show but these nine of them so far and they're things of absolute Beauty we've
1:20:10
got a whole range of artists who who've been asked to do them and a whole range of different styles of artists as well
1:20:17
you lots of different people with lots of different ideas of what they consider miniature painting to be yours interest
1:20:24
inly I think is the one that I think that I consider to be it's the most it's the one that is most the the painting
1:20:31
the painters Manual of of them a lot of them are Theory and understanding how people got on their journey of of how
1:20:38
they paint and their style of painting and all the rest but yours is the one that sort of goes let's break it down
1:20:43
and let's really show you from yeah the ground up lots of them do it but not quite as to the extreme that yours does
1:20:50
no well but what there's two reasons for that one I'm passionate about that yes
1:20:55
two that's all I had to give because like this collection in
1:21:02
Miniatures here won't fill one of them books cuz that's that's see what I mean
1:21:07
like I'm the last few years for me have not been that prolific prolific you know because of of of whatever you know and I
1:21:14
painted this model purely purely for the book you know that's the figurehead of
1:21:20
the book I would say but like there's value to be adding in the work of all these guys like yeah absolutely and
1:21:28
um the kickstarter for the next three goes live what would be for us this
1:21:34
Friday it'll probably be this Friday yeah probably be uh live by the time you see the show yeah yeah but um and that's
1:21:42
got more amazing artists involved in it especially one of my favorites being Sam lens is involved in that yeah so they're
1:21:48
going to go up on the there'll be a link in the show for the kickstarter for them as well thank you very much you're very
1:21:54
welcome but they um they are beautiful things to own but they are all in their own little way in different and
1:22:01
different ways quite inspiring books yeah so I I wrote the forward for um
1:22:06
Kristoff ke's book right and um it that was that was a funny experience actually
1:22:12
because that was my first working experience with Dave so Kristoff asked me to ride the forward I'm not going to write a forward for a book I haven't
1:22:19
read not I'm not going to do it like yeah but just rides the forward anyway you know Kristoff because he was one of my students oh right yeah one of your
1:22:26
students in now I tell you what there's more people there's more names in this industry that have signed my living room and adolesent that you might be
1:22:35
surprised at I don't know whether should name drop sometimes you know but but what the these people who have uh
1:22:43
shared me teachings and then it sticks out like a sort of thumb to me is
1:22:48
because it's only I use a very particular language in a very particular way and I know nobody else uses it
1:22:55
you want to see again a very particular way for very particular reasons and I hear that
1:23:01
echoed with certain people and when I find out who it is it generally turns out they be students and not anyone else
1:23:08
you know um it keeps coming back to me I'm trying to talk about these guys you know I'm um but where was I going with that
1:23:18
check him out every time leave it off it's all right yeah let's let's shine his head a little bit cuz he's got a
1:23:23
nicely painted head going under a hat as I was saying earlier it's the it's the eyes that if
1:23:28
there's any chance you can get a photo of that up the the orc pirate like the eyes just literally look into your soul
1:23:35
he's good forun is it yeah anyway I'm distracting you yeah yeah we talking about how christofer got involved so so
1:23:42
I'm not going to write a forward for a book I've not read so they sent me the PDFs of it while it was still kind of
1:23:48
work in progress and I read the book and it was it was most enjoyable because like as as an artist regardless Len my
1:23:55
style my style is very cartoony very clean should I wish it to be I can always change it blah blah blah um
1:24:01
Kristoff is the opposite of me and he's very dirty grimy creative he
1:24:10
likes to chop change things around a lot but everything looks good he doesn't he doesn't use dirt in a scruffy way he
1:24:17
used dirt in a tasteful way to communicate something specific it's
1:24:23
not an excuse just to be [ __ ] painting no that makes sense you know and some people don't kind of realize that's what
1:24:30
they are doing you know but again it's fun well everything that you add to a Min everything that you add to a
1:24:36
miniature as you were saying before about having that that imagination of looking at your your gray Miniatures
1:24:42
unpainted but you your imagination is at work well everything you add to a miniature is part of a story isn't it
1:24:49
everything you're doing is creating a story for yeah I'm trying to trigger something you yeah you know some you know at some point you know if we that
1:24:57
we take this left tenant what do that mean there also take that leftenant you
1:25:04
know something you know what what some what sorry oh he's a sergeant isn't he's
1:25:09
no stripes on his AR yeah I was already saying it to you yeah you me down there and the
1:25:14
internet me down a there a red helmet is Sergeant yeah is red helmet white stripe
1:25:20
veteran Sergeant that's right but you know you think at some point something heavy potentially rolled
1:25:26
over that and create that crack in that ground and I you know that's one of the things I'm not I'm no great shakes of a
1:25:31
painter but I always like I'm a bit like I always like to think there's always a bit of a story behind you know it's like
1:25:38
um I always was in the military for 10 years as people are probably bored of me saying well I used to paint um the most
1:25:45
during the war yes Shing the table of the bares coming
1:25:51
um but um I used to paint a lot of infinity miniatures and they had ones that looked a little bit like 21st
1:25:57
standard 21st century Army P yeah that's the one yeah and um
1:26:03
whenever I painted them I always used to paint them with even if they were stood up I'd always dry brush the knees in to look like they had mud on them because
1:26:09
at some point in time they've been on at least a a particular knee for firing
1:26:14
from the you know or do them a little bit on their chest on their elbows where they grow and I always think CU I think
1:26:20
you just you can have the dirty soul from just being stood up but they the fact
1:26:26
they will have interacted with the ground yeah the they shot at you're you're always interacting with the
1:26:32
ground as it's referred to is called getting on your belt buckle you get down and that's to me always and I thinking if I if people paint and I don't see
1:26:39
that that's the bit that disconnects me from okay so you all every scratch and
1:26:45
Nick and everything that's you telling a story aren't yeah yeah you are telling a story and I think that's the important
1:26:50
thing I think is to me is like do I feel that that guy's do I feel like that guy's there yeah well this is like a non-mets
1:26:57
question and again we've died from the book haven't we but here we go it's like a non-mets question nonm isn't about
1:27:03
creating realistic uh light on what might be a
1:27:09
shiny metal object it's about getting people to create an environment in their
1:27:14
own imagination around that model yeah which for everyone is going to be different and if you can make a brush
1:27:22
stroke Conjuring image in someone's head then you've done that brush Thro right yeah
1:27:29
so you could look at it in this way if when I look at a piece of art I see
1:27:34
imagery and then painting then you've done it right if I see painting and then add the imagery then you've done it not
1:27:40
as right still doing it right but but we talking highend Ball parking as much as
1:27:45
I might say things like I did a second which not excuse just for doing [ __ ] painting but that comes from a certain
1:27:51
point of view and when you cuz our points of view valid yeah at the end of the day you know cuz I meant what I said
1:27:57
about no one's a [ __ ] painter but there is certain ways of looking at things like you need 6 Kai painting in a day I
1:28:06
guarantee a golden demon winner is not going to be your kind of painter yeah you know so anyway to to to to rewind
1:28:13
what was I saying I can't remember now I was just I just drinking in what you're telling me
1:28:19
this is thing I just I get on mad tangents and just waffle so we we're talking about Conjuring imagery with a
1:28:24
brush stroke versus the imagery coming after the brush stroke right cuz the
1:28:30
imagery coming after the brush stroke if I see a a brush stroke on a model and I go I see what he's tried to do there
1:28:37
that's that's the dig in it really all right okay I see what that's meant to be but that's not the same as doing it
1:28:43
whereas if I see the thing and I go oh wow oh yeah is how it's done then the
1:28:48
the wowers come first do you know what I mean it's like the magici you don't want to see the trick and go oh yeah m clever
1:28:54
I like the way he did that you're not W by the magic you w by the the thing behind behind the set aren't you yeah
1:29:00
you know so if I can get a brush stroke to to do that you know like just if I
1:29:07
just you you feel that more than you see the brush stroke that highlight there one see what I mean and it's just a
1:29:13
[ __ ] brush stroke yeah well it's two or three brush strokes but the point is is you see it and feel it yeah you don't
1:29:19
go oh wow that's small and sharp and neat and you don't do you don't quantify the brush stroke you see the effect
1:29:26
first Ragnar's face you feel threatened
1:29:32
first yeah I feel threatened by your painting but you look at his face you
1:29:38
don't you don't break it down in fact it becomes very difficult to break it down in a brush draws because you you get sucked into his face yeah you see
1:29:45
expression on his face and those lines are painted on to make him look extra angry he's Crow feet are enhan for very
1:29:52
deliberate reasons you know and like that's there for everyone to learn you
1:29:58
know it's in the power of how how well do you do one brush stroke it's not anything more than that you know so
1:30:05
Kristoff Keel yes yes his the forward for his book I know so the forward for
1:30:10
his book no but it's about his book his book actually was inspirational it really helped me inform what I was about
1:30:16
to write because it's about art it's about how do you take these lifeless bits of plastic and these these lifeless
1:30:23
pots of liquid color and turning into something that makes you OTE makes you
1:30:29
feel um in Kristoff's case discomfort I would say you know because his his work
1:30:36
is very blanchitsu based you know and John likes to express discomfort a lot
1:30:42
um and you know each artist has their own thing like that to express in in
1:30:48
some instances it's um like ceras I've just had a quick flip through cuz that's a one I haven't
1:30:54
actually got in my collection at all um you know that that it's very fantastic
1:31:00
yeah that that's what's expressed fantasy but I think the word fantasy is not fantastic enough to express what her
1:31:07
painting style actually conveys yeah you know so each of these artists brings um
1:31:13
those different things um Kristoff Anna bani being similar veins yeah bani has a
1:31:21
real Grim dark blanches Grim Blan but he what they bring in addition to that you know so so they'll
1:31:27
do it like especially Anna she'll she'll add in um she hand draws playing cards and and
1:31:34
and writes backgrounds and maps and all all all type of things and that book isn't experience in itself to to read
1:31:40
through it's kind of dark and and and brooding and Moody Kristoff's is like a
1:31:46
uh uh how I think about doing these things while bringing that dark and moody in I've not read mini monthly
1:31:52
Chris sh is about about composition and color how to place models in the right
1:31:57
place to create the right effects and how to assess them and make changes to that to get biggest impact um within
1:32:06
your fantasy situation s shares an all round hobbyist kind of skill set he he he
1:32:13
shows armies he shows single minage paint but is is about how to use color in Mad ways so all the colors you look
1:32:19
at you don't expect any of them colors to appear where they are which is a good lesson for people
1:32:25
like color can be used however you want in fact what what was I watching was it
1:32:31
iopus podcast people were talking about how how how do people perceive leather to be
1:32:42
leather um when it's not leather you know and the the answer is is because
1:32:47
it's the shape of the thing you expect it to be not because of the colors you used yeah okay for example if I if I P a
1:32:54
sword in leather colors using leather painting techniques if you will you'll go that's a sword yeah okay you won't
1:33:00
see leather yeah yeah but if I paint a bag in non-met colors you'll probably
1:33:06
still see leather yeah yeah you know because it's the shape of the object that we imprint our own assumptions on
1:33:14
that's that's kind of how it works but anyway blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah yeah there's a few books I've not got that I'm actually excited to get
1:33:19
miniature monthly be we were lucky enough to uh see uh be being book number
1:33:24
seven we were lucky enough to have uh Eric Swinson uh doing a little bit of demo painting when we were at ad really
1:33:31
right he to his book you know yeah he uh he was a nice chap he was I I bought can
1:33:37
I do the apology so I bought I bought Eric's book um and I've only got a couple of three of these I've got them
1:33:43
and I kind of bought them cuz I did a quick video on adep con saying oh we were there and stuff and I said oh yeah
1:33:48
and we had Eric Swanson come to the booth and I realized as soon as I pressed live
1:33:54
um and watched it through I was like it's not Swinson it's not Swanson it's Swinson why have I done that so I had to
1:33:59
remove it put a quick thing in there didn't have time to re-edit it reupload it um so so as my penants um I've
1:34:06
supported Eric and I bought your book and I will read it so yeah but I feel bad about that so like to say there's
1:34:12
three more on the way Kickstarter will be probably live by the time you're watching this and also if we do our
1:34:19
little bit of Shameless bit of plugging for this for our
1:34:25
patreons they're going to get the chance to win these first nine bcks I mean I've
1:34:31
got a become a patron I have to buy all them as well you know I got I got the ones that came through my Kickstarter
1:34:37
with mine but I have to buy the rest so we're going to give the nine of them away and then we are also as a uh as a
1:34:45
runner-ups prize will'll give your one away as well as well so your book will go out there into the world twice would
1:34:52
you be kind enough you be kind kind enough to sign them for us yeah course I would that's really really nice you and
1:34:58
then um when we do our little bit that we're going to do in a few minutes for our patreon viewers the question to win
1:35:05
these beautiful Mighty Toms will be in there I am I'm really excited for
1:35:11
whoever gets these if they haven't got already because they are gorgeous things not massively looking forward to putting them in the post it's got to be said you
1:35:17
know what crazy are you sending them worldwide well I don't know we'll have to see your
1:35:25
depends on where they live it might be actually cheaper for me to just get a Evan and deliver them road trip I'm down for that yeah
1:35:32
deliver them in in person yeah so so that might be the other part of the prize is not only will
1:35:37
you win nine bucks but you'll Lear you'll whether you see it as a prize or or a downside you might end up meet you
1:35:43
doorstep with them in a box give you the that's like at least 50 Quid if it goes to the US or more I don't know I think
1:35:51
there's cuz it's paper crazy yeah because it's paper I think there's a difference in um postage prices I had
1:35:58
this once when I when I sent a load of books you went oh is it paper I was like yeah um and the lady in the shop was like oh that's significantly cheaper
1:36:05
don't know if it's the same International It Go yes this is um yeah go this is yeah they what are you
1:36:11
sending to America Bibles they're all Bibles to America does that come with some level of discount
1:36:18
pass oh brilliant what an awesome book but yeah we'll have a um yeah we put the
1:36:23
word on patreon that you were uh coming on Tommy and we've got a couple of uh
1:36:28
sort of uh questions for you from our uh patreon supporters uh and uh Chris
1:36:34
Hanley all right hi Chris says um darker days radio yeah he says say hi to Tommy
1:36:40
for me uh glad he got him on and I hope him at ukge uh question funniest thing that
1:36:46
ever happened while working at GW oh that you're allowed to talk about I'm
1:36:51
allowed to talk about guess thing do you know what there's a couple of things I don't think
1:36:58
I should talk about I don't know if he's even referring to them do you know what right working at Games Workshop
1:37:03
Manchester was a lck it was at a time where Games Workshop was very free very
1:37:09
generous very supportive and kind and um hobby was very much at the
1:37:17
front of how you achieve what you achieve as far as
1:37:22
numbers goes that's that's how I remember it yeah whether that was their intention I don't
1:37:28
know but you know it was it was a special time and a special store I think the games Ro at
1:37:34
Manchester all up until the retail standards came it was a fantastic place but one thing I do remember is um
1:37:40
whipping the living daylight Daylights out of each other with uh range rulers
1:37:46
oh they were great 12 the red 12in rain rer yeah oh oh they made that proper
1:37:51
whippy noise oh these are the ones that you can get now come now with hor we would break
1:37:58
them on each other got a go some to break one them we we would go we would
1:38:03
go and where the scar came from like I think that that entire
1:38:11
period was just fantastic it had again had its ups and downs because you know we're humans humaning um but yeah that
1:38:18
that period was just amazing and and Chris's part of that period where he used to work with him as a as a as a
1:38:25
part-time staff member or key Tim as they were call back then yeah you know
1:38:30
um funniest thing I don't know we had some mad nights out and all um is this where the scar no I tell
1:38:39
you what nearly there was one night out where some guy tried to lay well he did lay his hands on me and um a fight
1:38:45
nearly had to happen I full on brick me pants but that was somehow and magically nullified you know that was that was in
1:38:53
that was insane that when I think about it funniest thing I don't know like I
1:39:00
had to say it's hard to say with without sharing a story um that would
1:39:07
incriminate you or anyone else yeah yeah me or anyone else there's some things I
1:39:13
I'd say I'd say privately um but we'll get them off a
1:39:18
but not on camera and you can find out the illegal things on the the exclusive
1:39:24
patreon the patreon yeah yeah yeah um and then one fin question it says have
1:39:29
you ever tried painting cake or any other hidden Easter egg into your Minis
1:39:35
and busts and if thing now is C on Miniatures which is your favorite what do you mean by cake on Miniatures that
1:39:41
I'm missing out by have you ever painted like a um an e an Easter egg like a
1:39:46
hidden object into your miniature like oh this would be all over me models all the time there's one on the table right
1:39:53
in front of you is this do we have to spot it we'll have them spin yeah go for it I enjoy the the Darren leam leg Yeah
1:40:00
Yeah well that that had to come that cuz that's that's an example of
1:40:05
uh I think how to do things right and I really like it I'd like to do the full model and it's me kind of emulating
1:40:13
somebody else's not necessarily style or work but using their information in in
1:40:18
my way you know and that's some I think everybody should have a go if I ask you a question then go on as as as as a
1:40:25
patron even though I'm not actually a patron but uh as a patreon I'll
1:40:30
pretend who's your favorite [Music]
1:40:36
painter there's different painters for different reasons you know I knew you'd say that yeah because that that that's
1:40:43
the honest answer is it that's that's that's the truth some artists you like for this and some artists you like yeah
1:40:50
you like for for sharpness of and sharpness and smallness of line um Paul
1:40:58
Norton you know I think one of my favorite painted models um in warmer
1:41:05
world is Max fet's tering Knight you know the um imperial knight
1:41:12
in blue with the horse heads on it one of the first oh yes yes I do know that one I think it's Max is anyway and I
1:41:17
might might be wrong but but that really excites me because the cleanliness with which he painted a every bit of it just
1:41:24
just blows me mind you know and that's something to Aspire to I've always always been a fan of Darren
1:41:31
Leen who do we say how does he say le as far as we know yeah so so I've always been a fan of if you Posh it's
1:41:39
lath Dar lath Dar lath manacha pant um Tim prow Tim prow
1:41:47
will always be up there as one of my favorites I think that guy that guy is underrated and under celebrated given
1:41:54
that in my opinion he's the father of um fantasy and science fiction War Games
1:42:00
Miniatures non-metal metallics techniques yeah he is the father and CU
1:42:07
in my opinion he did he did the first one which was Captain Tao yeah W DW 13 n
1:42:13
again I think but um yeah that I miss Tao always are such a gorgeous model
1:42:19
yeah yeah I like the fact he had I like the fact he had the bottle to go he got killed I like the fact that they had the
1:42:24
bottle for it it was always a shame to see it go yeah yeah yeah I it was a shame to see him lose his his blank face
1:42:31
as well and get Mas he Phantom of the Opera mask yeah yeah um so yeah Tim prow
1:42:37
and there there's some heavy metal articles on that isolates Tim's work that actually play a an existing role in
1:42:46
how I paint to the to this day like every Space Marine should have heraldry yeah which is why he has Herald
1:42:53
yeah you know it's there on him as as is the Easter egg oh the
1:42:59
Easter eggs on anyone's been watching I've been picking up them one at a time that's the
1:43:05
one I haven't touched I might have to give this to you to find go on yeah car yeah so um Tim proud definitely you know
1:43:13
this there's some of his work like he paying ultramarine Captain with like the the Roman always has a ban back Banner
1:43:20
Marine should always have back banners the all all Captain should have back bounds and Herald on because it looks
1:43:27
cool I don't don't care whether it's practical for getting it or RH or not I don't care I don't care it go he
1:43:36
presses a button and go go gadget B he's coming to screw up you and your
1:43:41
lady you know and um
1:43:46
uh um Alonso heraldez without a doubt because again that's about you so
1:43:54
Alonso will use very OB obvious brush strokes
1:44:01
but you are communicated the message instead of the brush stroke yeah you see expression you
1:44:08
see volume you see flapping a cloak before you see brushstroke and no matter
1:44:14
how hard you look at brushstroke you will automatically flip back to see the effect he's trying to express to you
1:44:22
yeah and that's that's a valuable skill you know a lot of people are trying to chase Flawless Blends and it's nice
1:44:28
but can you make a blend appear Flawless when it isn't now that's a different skill and that's technical well that's
1:44:36
Technical and emotional yeah and that's that's a double it you know so for all
1:44:41
them technical painters out there there's there's there's somewh else yeah
1:44:46
you know and some people will use texture to create Flawless Blends but they'll be using that out of an
1:44:53
insecurity cuz they can't necessarily blend and that then becomes part of their style but it's still different to
1:45:00
using a very obvious brush not to create a very obvious message that make sense
1:45:05
absolutely I would you know um but yeah could I mean let's go up the list
1:45:12
there Kristoff Anna and bani all express some very particular in Al paint you
1:45:19
know that Blanchet style is inspirational to me I like to try and salt and pepper it in um here and there
1:45:26
where I can I mean Andy wle you know I got to judge his work again this year
1:45:31
and it always impresses me yeah which one do you remember which one it was that the Lumberjack Lumberjack so I mean
1:45:39
is his work on the leather there you know so I I get to look at models in a very particular way when I'm judging and
1:45:45
I do look at models even online in a very particular way I do look with those
1:45:51
two eyes and it's it's always impressive when people use brush work in a very
1:45:56
particular way to create a certain effect you know that's what I was just saying
1:46:02
before like there's obvious brush strokes but then the effect is communicated that's that's a top level
1:46:08
pain you know like the Nik swsh only really communicates swsh yeah
1:46:15
doesn't communicate thin wider long and thin you
1:46:20
know it's just you don't go it's just the shape there's an experience in there with speed and dynamic it's there there's no
1:46:29
blending do you know I mean there's no there's nothing there it's just a it's just a shape yeah that shape was crafted
1:46:36
deliberately to give you an experience you know and and there's not
1:46:41
many eyes can do that and that needs celebrating and it's not about [ __ ]
1:46:47
smoothness or any of that business it's not about um being allowed to paint any
1:46:53
lines wherever it's about honing your craft about to create a very specific effect I mean cartoon painters drawers
1:47:01
illustrators do it all the time you know Bugs Bunny you don't look at Bugs Bunny and go yeah it's just a basic thing the
1:47:07
amount of Mischief in any picture of Bugs Bunny just standing there it oozes
1:47:13
Mischief oh my god do you know what I mean so car car cartoonists do it all
1:47:18
the time and you know it's not about even realism like for example let's grab
1:47:23
this guy anything real about that weird highlight there but if I hadn't have
1:47:28
pointed it out would it have stuck you know you just take it as part of the thing yeah but this guy is
1:47:34
like um I it's hard to like early early 2000s comic book style drawers yeah
1:47:43
would use ideas like that on swords it's not a real highlight but it absolutely
1:47:49
fits the piece you know got I got someone gave me some Sim similar advice with color once and it's
1:47:56
like depending the style you want to communicate so a lot of people now look at and again I was just playing with
1:48:02
color so it's not right or wrong um a lot of people will look at the gamees workshop approach of right it's mcra
1:48:07
blue and then the Highlight I'm I'm guessing it might not be mcra blue but you you highlight your ultramarines with
1:48:13
with your mcra then calgar then maybe some else or whatever the order is and then someone pointed out like actually
1:48:20
if you communicate in the style of look at an ultramarine AS Superman generally blue if you're putting him out on a
1:48:25
sunny day and the the sun's bleeding out from him actually his Edge highlight goes from yellow to Green then to Blue
1:48:33
and I was like whoow does that work on on Space Marines and I did a video using the proac paints I was like I'm going to
1:48:39
Edge highlight this using yellow and it it not like an ice yellow like an off-white yellow and it works it pops
1:48:46
course it's going to work and it's just boom and it it'd never win it'd never be right it was a quick paint job but I'm like you don't know that's interesting
1:48:52
you don't never never it wouldn't it wouldn't I know it wouldn't win a Golden demon kind of thing it was it was very
1:48:58
much a uh yeah it was it was spray paint dry brush oil wash but the paint job in
1:49:04
general the color Choice exactly color choice I learned something from that
1:49:09
yeah yeah so sey is good for that going I drag s's book out I really want to
1:49:15
celebrate these guys a bit more than I am doing but check it out mad color choices yeah mad color choices yeah you
1:49:22
know who has purple stubble yeah there's many colors in there but
1:49:28
purple's not one of them mad color choices and not some mad ones there weirdly but yeah what a great painter
1:49:36
you know I do love that it's the reason why yeah just mad and mad patterns yeah
1:49:42
what original I would say that's it it's the reason why uh why I picked up cats
1:49:48
spot cuz I love her work like we saw it or I saw it at um in person at lvo yeah
1:49:55
but I'd seen it in Adept con the year before like the colors of some of the the things and I think she she's one of
1:50:02
them where people will be like it's not quite golden demon style but it's it
1:50:07
it's the one that to me like I as much as I love golden demon from a technical aspect I always am attracted to the ones
1:50:14
that are just more visually striking so the ones like this that use color in such vivid and vibrant ways I'm like oh
1:50:21
yeah I do like that and then he's got the skill to go with it so mad is it like look at this guy that's a purple
1:50:27
pig yeah there's so much purple in that mini in that shouldn't be there what color is that Arc I don't
1:50:34
know what color that Arc is said purple pig oh what color is that I can't say
1:50:42
yeah you can't see no like what color is the skin You' be like pinky
1:50:48
green thing yeah it just works yeah yeah everything looks
1:50:54
Illustrated real yeah yeah it it the job is done so what colors are bad color
1:51:00
choices well I don't know NOS no no no yeah yeah yeah because
1:51:06
we're free to do what we want to do and then with time comes your ability to become more uh aware of how you do
1:51:13
things and then you'll start to make more refined choices which why you should paint more models more of the time if you want to get better and you
1:51:20
start to develop a thing based on what you think works you know and if you want to know more about what works well look
1:51:26
at the things that inspire you cuz they obviously work use them things like you did yeah with the yellow apply it to
1:51:32
somewhere else doesn't have to be the same thing and see if it works for you again and keep finding that although I
1:51:38
am a I've just said the the one phrase that really does bug me actually find what works for you and stick with that
1:51:43
no don't find what works for you and stick with that um there are lots of thing in the in miniature painting that
1:51:50
don't work for you because you haven't developed the skills develop the [ __ ] skills yeah well as far as taste goes
1:51:58
yeah understand what excites you taste and use it everywhere and see how how to
1:52:05
make it work I found Easter egg okay and it relates it relates to uh our first ever guest I think he may
1:52:13
well have been oh Bob yeah yeah Bob n oh yeah good point yeah did you yeah cuz on
1:52:20
the base of this beautiful full base that I've already looked at and I'm now annoyed with myself I didn't spot the
1:52:26
first time around cuz you did eyeball that Bas I did yeah and I chose how good the uh the cracked workers cuz I
1:52:32
completely ignored the little serial number painted on the on the base that says rtb 01 being the code for the first
1:52:40
ever Space Marine let's see oh I was going to say you should have left that what it is and see how many people in the comments knew what it was question
1:52:47
but these are beautiful we'll be giving them away for our patreons
1:52:54
thank you from the absolute bottom of my heart for making the journey over the penines today it's been an
1:53:00
absolute absolute joy and my brain feels like it's going to pour out me a I've
1:53:05
learned so much and you've told me so many things that's just give me a bit of a realignment I think quick break are we
1:53:11
doing again halfway yeah I think I think we I think we could I think we could I think we we could get
1:53:17
you back over from Manchester about once a month think I'll do it I'll do it back
1:53:22
again cwood oh man you know if I if I can if I can encourage people to paint more
1:53:29
models for their happiness I will do well that's sort of funny because that lines up with one of the reasons we do
1:53:36
this show yeah yeah yeah and the idea of these talking things are nice background
1:53:42
to have on while people are painting their yeah yeah I mean like I said before there's there's no such thing as
1:53:48
a [ __ ] model unless it's not hitting your objectives and if this is a nice way of ending it
1:53:54
actually if your own painting isn't hitting your objectives then you are not a [ __ ] painter you just need to develop
1:54:01
some areas so you need to identify what them areas are and start taking steps towards improving them towards your
1:54:09
objectives not anyone else's that's what you have to do any
1:54:14
model you're not happy with is just not finished simple as that yeah thank you
1:54:21
man Tommy's the art of which is available from Dave
1:54:26
Taylor Miniatures it's also available through warlord it's available through friends of ours being element games
1:54:33
we'll stick some links in the stick some links in depends where you are on the planet if you're in the states go go
1:54:39
through Dave and and his Camp if you're if you're on this side of the planet then you go through warlord or element
1:54:45
yeah yeah um warlord are the main Distributors so they're more likely to have stocking element sell it a little
1:54:51
bit cheaper and there you go and I can really recommend it Tommy's book is just a really great
1:54:58
for book for all levels of painters to yeah just learn something new out of
1:55:03
thank you sir thank you really appreciated thank you and we'll be all
1:55:09
the way over there I will be talking to Tommy a bit a bit more in in a few minutes over on patreon byebye everyone
1:55:16
bye everyone cheers guys byebye

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