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Golden Demon has just finished in the USA, we're treated to two competitions a year around the globe but where did it all start? We chat to Geoff's best mate Tim who attended the event all those years ago! He also got a load of cool swag which he shows off!
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0:00
this video is sponsored by Squarespace hello I'm Jeff and I'm Patrick and today
0:06
we're joined by a man many of you who have been listening to the show for a while will have heard mentioned on
0:12
numerous occasions as my best pal and today he's here in what is quite a
0:19
timely uh a timely it's timely because we're
0:25
we're about to hit the next golden demon which will be being held at Adepticon in Milwaukee and my pal here is going to
0:32
talk to us about the very very first golden demon being held in Nottingham so
0:37
as many of you will know him bestie Tim hey hello hello and and thanks for the
0:43
invite you're very very welcome so you mentioned to me a while ago that
0:50
you had some stuff with regards to the early days of Games Workshop and Golden Demon and so on and we thought might be
0:57
nice to have a little bit of a chat about that and now like I say it fortuitously has landed in basically
1:03
Golden Demon period for the USA so we thought we'll have a bit of a natter and
1:10
you'll find this really hard i only having an interview with you pal well this you sound different Jeff i think I
1:16
think I think he sounds different to the usual as well yeah very formal slight hint of Dia about far more well spoken
1:22
than you do on upstairs or downstairs I would say i mean you you you run my
1:28
house every Tuesday yes uh whether I want you there or not yes basically yeah i've known you for You're my emotional
1:34
support animal how long have I I I referred to Jeff well I'm his handler rather than friend because it makes our
1:40
relationship sound a bit more dynamic well it's better than carer
1:46
it's a bit like you know under siege where he used to be ex military then he's a cook now he's a cook yeah yeah yeah yeah i saw him handler i I I still
1:53
still go out there and say that Under Siege is the only good Steven Seagal film yes i watched Oh what was it
2:00
executive Decision executive Decision and Steven Seagal is in that a little bit before he's killed spoilers really
2:06
old film but you can tell how how little effort he put in to like there's a fight scene where he takes on like three
2:12
guards and he just kind of stands there and just does this and the camera cuts and then someone falls over yeah it's
2:18
amazing yeah so a little bit like that isn't it i'm a little bit like that yeah so we've known each other 20 years yes
2:24
we've known Well a bit less than that we've known each other about uh 16 years is it yeah i think my eldest breed sure
2:32
does you know I've moved house twice without telling Jeff where I've gone and somehow you've always managed to find
2:38
out still got them in intelligence contacts and the army contacts knocking the door hello hello Jeff yeah can I
2:46
come in it's raining 3 weeks beforehand you going "What is that buzzing that sounds like a drone in the back garden."
2:51
So eventually using all his X skills want to track you down and uh Yeah and
2:58
you you you mentioned for quite a while about me coming on yes we have indeed but I'm a little bit shy so I thought
3:04
and there was so I thought I'll wait until the numbers come down a lot and then when there's only a relatively
3:10
small amount of people watching this then I'll come on yeah well excellent you picked exactly the right time then
3:16
so uh so thanks for for for asking me on yeah you're very welcome so
3:24
So in conclusion chaps there's no iron team but there is a kill
3:30
onto our next point on the agenda building a website with Squarespace what's Squarespace sir i've got a big
3:35
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4:52
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to squarespace.com/thepainting phase to save 10% off your first purchase of a
5:03
website or domain oh I've lost me no no it's still there oh thank the emperor
5:10
you've been in the hobby a very long time it Well yes I suppose since um
5:18
1981 I think probably that's when I first uh Yeah i mean what do you want to
5:24
know a little bit about Well I was nine nine maybe 10 when you first got into the hobby and Pat wasn't even a thought
5:30
in anyone's brain so what year were you born Pat 89 there you go 89
5:38
i'm I'm 35 you know it's fine fine find myself on my turn now so I was born in
5:45
1967 and um if you want to know a little bit about how I kind of Yeah please do
5:51
tell us how you got into the hobby and it'll lead us into the next bit um yeah without probably rambling too much um
5:57
yeah so I suppose for lots of people similar age to me kind of growing up kind of get into the kind of I don't
6:03
know hobbyish I guess in the 70s in the 70s you know games workshop didn't it
6:08
did kind of exist but not like on a on a big scale that most people would have known about so I think like a lot of
6:14
people who wanted to put little things together and paint them in the 70s it was kind of air fix it's kind of I
6:21
suppose people old kind of young a lot younger probably for people of my
6:27
generation my age 70s there was still those kind of echoes of World War II you know there was there was I don't know
6:32
about you but there was like the teachers in my school that fought in World War II my grandparents were it was like the thing and you know everybody
6:38
everywhere sold airfix kits you know you go into test my street was still missing houses from the second world war yeah
6:43
I'm not even joking it was it was missing houses from the second world war yeah I mean it was still a thing you know as I think you know like sort like
6:51
putting a Spitfire kit together in the ' 70s a different thing maybe if you were like 12 and now because I think probably
6:57
for people now it's like ancient history in a way whereas you know we were still surrounded by it so I I got into uh I
7:04
got into toy sold years I guess because of my uh gran in a weird way so when I was about
7:11
five or six uh I was about five my um my grandad had a big I didn't know anything about toy shoulders anything about
7:17
models nothing at all my grand had a big bag of toy soldiers she used to keep
7:23
underneath the stairs which when I think about is odd because she lived in a bungalow but she had these things in the bag so I used to go around every week
7:29
it's called a bag of junk and they were like which I now know you know like Britain le soldiers old gossipy oh yeah
7:34
yeah yeah yeah go put in the garden play with these toy soldiers all day until one week I went down right and cuz I was
7:43
like five i had always been told to tell the truth so one day I was down I was running around my grand and she was
7:49
putting makeup on and I was sitting on the bed watching her and you know like all old women some put makeup on very red lift you know yeah and she turned to
7:54
me she said do I look beautiful Timothy i said no you look like a clown so she was happy so the next week
8:03
go back I said the bag of junk she said I've given it away she said what do you mean giving it away she said I giving it
8:08
away i said who you giving it to she said a little boy i said a little boy what little boy said "A little boy lives
8:15
down the lane." Now at that this is true at that time man you were only six i was young right so at that time I because I
8:23
was six i'd only recently learned the song Bara Black Sheep you know so you know Baba you
8:29
only one from little boy lives down there i thought you know what B he's got the
8:34
wool he's got my soy soldier so I thought I better get some more and um
8:39
what's kind of interesting about this is not long after that have you ever been a cleavelli no clei little down in the
8:48
west country little picturesque little place and we got on all these and um there was a guy who it it well I
8:55
remember really clear a block he's painted he's like he had a shop and he was painting like McLolonics I think it
9:01
must have been like cliff yeah I've heard of that yeah amazing and we went in there and he was a block um painting
9:08
all this stuff for sale and they were quite expensive and I'd gone back to you basically turn the front of his house
9:13
it's like little narrow kind of street turn the front of his house and he'd sit there painting Sally these little things and amazing and um 10 years ago me and
9:20
my wife went to Clelli and we got talking this woman in this street and she said he still there but obviously
9:27
Yeah yeah and um and then I bought a a model kit i didn't want to buy tanks or anything and I bought a model kit when
9:32
we were on oldies it was a model kit aurora you know they do like um Megan company yeah I've had some Aurora stuff
9:39
yeah and I bought a Aurora model they used to do dinosaurs a Stegosaurus and they I took it on i was really proud i put this together i took it off and
9:44
showed it to my grand he was furious cuz in the model kit you had a little figure of of caveman throwing a rock at a
9:50
Stegosaurus and he was furious my grandfather you can't do this children will think
9:56
and then and then it was kind of toy soldiers I guess and it was like air fix you know you put little things together
10:02
and then um and then I went out to um and we got family in America and I
10:08
went out to America in 1981 and um one of my cousins my cousin John he was
10:14
really into at that time he's Dungeons and Dragons and um it was amazing we went out there for a for a month he
10:19
lived in um Washington i went to school with him for a day oh that's a whole another story but um and he said to me
10:26
he was like "Well you know you you need the miniatures you you need miniatures to play D." which I think really it it
10:32
limits it's a game of imagination you know and it you know you're going to you know you're going to just kind of you're
10:39
going to be limited by the ministers you you you get you know and so I started you know so we started playing and then
10:45
um he got me into it and then I came back and I think he gave me some books and and at that time there was a I'm
10:52
from a place called Portalbert his little shop in near Swansea uh Swansea models and hobbies and they started
10:57
selling uh basically fancy miniatures then and um there was two there was two types
11:05
there was only really two manufacturers then it was Sadilla Miniatures and another company called Grenadilla um I
11:10
brought in a a copy of White Do from 1981 um which shows um that the the
11:17
difference between So Grenia was like you know Grenia was actually big it was a Megan company but you could only buy
11:22
the um stuff in in box sets whereas Citadel sold them individually like on little spinners um in
11:29
fact so here's here's an idea i don't know if you can see that so that's
11:35
that's a miniature from 1981 i don't if you can kind of see basically if you went in a model shop in in the early 80s
11:41
you'd have like a little spinner yeah and these would be on there so it was quite you know small little kind of you
11:46
know it's not like almost like cottish industry sort of thing yeah you know that's something you know you go into a shop you can buy a bag of nails like that then
11:53
so um so yeah I mean but the miniatures they were they were um a bit more funky
11:59
than good idea quite chunky i mean I don't know if you can show this i get this
12:06
out and that kind of show I don't know if you can kind of see that so that's like an advert for Gundia Miniatures
12:12
from 1981 that's on the back of That's on the back of White Dwarf yep so that was you know that's a full color thing
12:18
but if you go inside of it there's only one advert for still miniatures at the time uh it's a uh little black and white
12:26
with with a description of a uh aggressive artback advancing with a sword which you can get for 25
12:34
bargain if you ask me or a seductive wench for 25 with a large tavern bed or something
12:41
well you know what I mean there were times you know when you buy miniatures for for Dungeons and Dragons i went into
12:46
a I remember when I was about 14 I went into a shop and I bought a table a miniature table and a miniature bench at a bear and I thought [ __ ] it's almost
12:53
like Sylvanian family little tiny little table so um so
12:59
yeah so that was that was so originally like a lot of people I mean if you look at you know this issue I draw from from
13:06
issue 26 uh from 1981 was the first issue I bought it's all done it's all D
13:12
and D all of it all contents pretty much sort of like traveler but you know dungeon master's guide to the galaxy
13:17
dungeon architect introduction dungeon dragon so the cig ministers really at
13:23
that time I guess was really it was very much geared to D&D so I started painting
13:28
them and then like a lot of um I suppose like a lot of people when you get about 15 16 kind of lose interest in playing
13:33
but I just for some reason just carried on painting I don't know why but I just did I mean I didn't know anybody else
13:40
who was into it there was no I mean obviously before the there there wasn't really any kind of So you were painting
13:45
purely for your own enjoyment you weren't play painting to use it in Dungeons and Dragons with anybody or anything it was just literally just for
13:51
your own enjoyment yeah and I you know it's something like a lot of people I mean I guess there's people who I mean you know there's people who play i mean
13:57
I guess me and you we're not really players i mean it takes us it takes us so long to learn 40k by the time you say
14:03
they've changed in a new swapped to kill team for that reason yeah we have to kill team that would be
14:09
easier oh yeah we we've managed to get we've managed to get two rounds through to get round two two rounds of I think
14:16
at some point we do you know what I don't know what round four feels like no I have no idea i don't know what it be like to finish game at the end of the
14:21
game what happens at the end of the game something happens at the end of the game for all I know could just be an orbital strike for all I know we just have never
14:27
got there but we're slowly getting there we're figuring it out slowly yes slow with the emphasis on slowly but so I'm
14:32
I'm more into the kind of painting side of it but but I I mean like a lot of people I suppose I mean now there's like
14:38
online communities in there and you can go on forums and and you go but you know I was in 1987 which I guess we'll come
14:45
to in a minute when um when I when I went to the first gold demon here in uh in Nottingham Victoria center I was
14:52
working in steel works you know and that was a bit of a fruity place you know and you couldn't you know it was like it was
14:58
either rugby or something you know you could I worked with you know a lot of area steel workers you know I go what
15:04
are you In the weekend you go "Well I'm painting my chaos dwarves." What are you going to do i punch in the
15:11
face it was that kind of place you know if you had you had a problem you just basically wrestled around on the floor until people came and split you up until
15:18
Molten Steel just kind of took the weakest one away what's it like working in the steerworks i think I told you
15:24
whenever the last shift I worked in the big steel works in Portal but the last
15:30
shift I worked I took a video camera in and I filmed the shift you know I filmed myself walking down it was like massive
15:36
bays you know and part of it is you know like metal metal walkways you know so
15:41
I'm filming myself walking on this metal walking down it's all ste like lights flashing and I'm walking down this thing
15:47
and I film and at the end of it I turn the camera away and that's that's the end of the video I did so anyway so eventually I went to university and I
15:54
would tell you this and I took the video with I had the video one of the things you me my first year in halls people
16:00
saying so what was it like I said [ __ ] half put the video on and I put it on and it was like six of us we're all sitting there watching it and this
16:05
girl came in halfway through the video and she sat down and she's watching it and I turned the camera and she went [ __ ] that's you and I said yes she said
16:12
well what are you doing on there I said well it's a steel works she said the steel works I thought we watching
16:20
aliens so it was the kind of hobby be where you didn't really talk to people
16:26
about it probably it would be more socially acceptable if I was a transvesttor i think you know that way you during the weekend I'm going to be
16:32
wearing a dress well as I I've told this story many a time of uh one of my customers um is a straight guy who plays
16:39
in a a gay guy's football team and one of the people he plays football with um
16:45
is a servant soldier and he said um I he said I came out to my my military
16:52
colleagues and uh confessed that I was gay he said but I've never told any of them I'm also a Warhammer player way
16:58
because I know which one is most socially acceptable well it's very odd because I know fast forwarding a bit but
17:04
eventually I ended up working at a Games Workshop yeah and I was interviewed as a I went on to become a manager store
17:10
manager when I was interviewed they said um you got to bring some miniatures you know that you've done to the interview
17:16
to to discuss things so I was like now I haven't spoken to anybody about this ever right and so I came to the
17:21
interview and the guy was like so let's see what you got and I'm like uh okay then like at the first that's really
17:27
nice and it felt a bit like you know like you come out as a transvest and you all of a sudden you were showing somebody a selection of your dresses you
17:33
know that's that's a nice hem he was like you know that felt weird so anyway
17:38
yes so I I came uh and I could talk obviously a lot more about the first
17:44
Golden Demon competition please do so unlike Golden Demon now Yes where anyone
17:50
can rock up at um at one of the uh
17:55
places hosting it which at the moment is Spiel uh in Essen and Adepticon in
18:02
Milwaukee um and we haven't had a proper UK one for a couple of years now but the
18:09
process of getting into Golden Demon especially right at the beginning was was quite different to how it is now
18:14
isn't it so yes yes thank you like on that or is that just where we're going
18:20
yes it was different anyway how was it different it was very different part
18:27
specifically i gave you the very short version i give extremely long rambling version well that's what we brought you
18:32
in for right okay so I brought some little things there to show you how how different was it it was Oh don't let me
18:38
start how different it was so there's no plane ticket involved for a start there was uh so here's a copy of uh White
18:45
Dwarf from see throw anything away 1987 issue right here we go so the March Let
18:52
me show this i don't know if you can see this so what issue 87 March 87 okay uh yes
18:58
correct yes so uh basically here's the front page the advert for the very first
19:04
Golden Demon painting competition it's quite interesting because it sets out all the stores which are taking part in
19:10
it but you're absolutely right at the time to take part in the you could just turn up and have a look but actually
19:15
take part in the competition you had to win like your regional heat what was interesting because obviously after
19:21
talking about coming on the show I've gone back and looked at a lot of the stuff that I had looked at for years
19:26
really and it was interesting to look at the shot from what I can gather which is odd in a way the go the first gold demon
19:33
there was uh how many categories there was like seven different categories she had single character figure single
19:38
conversion monster dragon single- mounted figure diarama 5 to 25 models in
19:44
the scenic setting vignette up to four models on the scenic base Warhammer battle regiment 12 to 24 models so I
19:50
guess categories weren't that different than they were but basically what you had to do is you took your little painted miniatures to your little local
19:56
model store and then they judged them and then they kind of went "Yes congratulations you won your kind of
20:02
local heat and now you've been invited to the regional the national kind so what was the So you won your local store
20:09
was Swansea Swansea there was only um I mean it's interesting it lists one of
20:15
the things I I'm slightly confused about reading this information here is all the stores that you basically were taking
20:21
part in it that you all throughout the UK um there's no GW stores and there
20:26
were GW stores at the time is not mentioned so whether it was also there's
20:31
I think there's quite a few different reasons why they did it at that time in 1987 um but looking back it was all
20:38
through trade sales so it wasn't GW stores it was all independent stock Oh okay um and there was 50 shops that took
20:44
part saw there was 50 stores throughout the UK uh I looked at it i think there was two in Northern Ireland two in Wales
20:51
four in Scotland and the rest were in Scotland did you then have to compete against the other guy in Wales uh well
20:58
you just Well yeah well oh sorry so there was there was one there was only two stores in Wales that did it one in
21:03
Swansea one in Cardiff yeah no it was just the people who won the region Elite oh right so you both you both attended
21:08
then yes yeah whoever that person was I don't yeah so I mean I don't know how many people went mhm you know so um so
21:15
basically you know I rocked up and my I think I had like a little diarama uh I haven't got any of those miniatures
21:21
which I'm kind of glad of in a way cuz in my head they're still like really well painted yes but if I had they can
21:26
remain that way yeah when you have a photograph you know it's like I've got lots of photographs of me wearing clothes in the 1970s and it's not good
21:32
but my mind not like you go to you know like you dressed up your mother's dress you up for a wedding in 1975 you know
21:38
and you've got massive flare and you look at those photographs you think I can't think what she was thinking about clothes like but in my head you know
21:44
look like John Travolta I shaft Albert answer the
21:50
shaft can you dig it so what was he going to say yes photo so I entered two
21:56
miniatures so one didn't win my local but the single miniature which was a spaceman um did win and so and then they
22:04
kind of went "Oh you're going to um you're going to get send some information." Um and then I got a
22:10
pack there's a couple of things so so you got this hallowed item that this
22:17
is check this out and it is a hallowed item isn't it the very first so basically never worn never worn wow only
22:24
by my wife quality moments um yes so basically you
22:30
won your reason you got a t-shirt you got an invite to come up to the to the you know does that print to front back
22:36
or just No am I am I right in thinking from what you've said that that is quite
22:41
a sought after t-shirt because even in the Warhammer like Warhammer world museum they only have a t-shirt from the
22:47
second That's right golden Demon so basically this t-shirt uh they did uh they did this one if you put that
22:54
t-shirt on and go into Games Workshop do you not automatically just become head of Games Workshop i just I think at least they could do a salute yeah I
23:01
think so like the RA so yes so basically you got that t-shirt uh every everybody
23:07
wanted the the local heat got that um and als
23:12
James Taro would be so jealous of that t-shirt i can imagine yeah I've been
23:17
offered a lot that t-shirt and not just money
23:23
um they also sent me this miniature this cool little dwarf later and stick it in
23:28
um there's I don't know how we could do this pat do you want to see him
23:34
i don't know how we could do this but there's an issue White Dwarf had brought which has got a write up of the whole of
23:40
the competition and it's got a little photograph so basically as well as bringing up your winning entry to be
23:47
judged in the category for all the other winning entries you were sent that miniature because there was another category where um you could basically
23:56
everybody painted the same miniature which is that and then there was another category of that there's a photograph
24:02
um here of all of the all the entries i didn't bother with that one so he is he
24:07
then meant to be one of the early variants of the white dwarf
24:13
i don't know no is a really boring answer i shouldn't be able to say yes or no but I also I couldn't tell i mean it
24:20
was just a separate category you got you got a 10 pound voucher to spend on the day so I thought yeah go and then and
24:26
that that would have bought kilos of lead back in the day oh I you could the amount of advanced hard you could have
24:32
bought with that money 10 pound come to the train fair slap a meal yeah and Yeah no but it was it was it cost me
24:38
something like 30 quid to get to Nottingham to spend my10 vouch but um but yeah so it was um so then I had a
24:46
phone call somebody phoned me in the evening from games workshop just to check I was going to come you know and
24:52
but but you know back in this would be 1987 you know like know before mobiles every landline my parents were the
24:59
gatekeepers of the landline and my mother got my mother it was like 7:00 in there's a man on the phone every at that
25:04
time if somebody had fallen the My mother automatically assumed either I was in trouble or I owed money to somebody so she was quite nervous about
25:10
the idea of holding up a phone to check and it was coming and then I turned up on the day um in the Victoria center
25:16
which is uh which is quite small really I think the Victoria Leisure Center yeah which is now known as just is now purely
25:24
a swimming bats and a gym now isn't it i think do you know the Victoria Bath
25:31
i think so yeah i don't know there's there's a lot of photographs you used to have a lot of wrestling on back in the day
25:37
i um Caris complete aside Caris dragged me to um a amateur
25:45
wrestling event um in in I don't know somewhere and uh you know they they get
25:52
Arji and they yell at people in the crowd yes um somebody uh who was like
25:58
the villain of the day the heel yes oh is that what it is the heel the heel um
26:03
uh came onto the stage and people were like booing and he was like looked at me and went "What are you looking at?"
26:09
Tintin that well-known beard that well-known beard and character tint tintin he was
26:17
sitting there with a small white dog yeah cuz I was just thinking about Tintin cuz he doesn't have a beard but
26:23
is it the the captain of the boat oh maybe that's what he met Captain S captain Hardick captain Hardick so he
26:29
must have been in reference to that but um yeah I've learned to make that's a bit of a loose insult isn't it yeah it's
26:35
it's very mild isn't it yeah I had like a knitted uh wool jumper on at the time oh maybe well you are starting to deck
26:41
in the heels favor now when you mention the knitted jumper so you you were your girlfriend dragged you to a Yeah it was
26:47
like a like a a wrestling match um like amateur wrestling match you glad you went
26:54
um yes yes yes anyway gone like
27:00
sometimes you know like wife tried to some Mrs dy somewhere that he really didn't want to go but
27:06
then turned out that you glad you went yeah um Mark Gatus is a Christmas Carol
27:12
oh yeah that was good i thought Yeah i thought I was going to watch comedy and I was deeply disappointed that I was
27:17
getting dragged into the theater yeah afterwards and then despite myself Yes i
27:23
enjoyed it couple of years ago um Rachel she um uh she was going to go this thing
27:29
called a Victorian seance I talk about this so so you know is it Newstead yeah
27:36
Newby it's pretty it's pretty scary in the day is it and u so we went to Oh
27:42
stop yep uh go all right so we went to Newstead Albby and that's so it was like
27:47
a night it was this thing called a Victorian seance so it was a piece of theater right so the wasn't really seance so the them are to be fair none
27:55
of them are you'd be surprised so we So she said "Do
28:01
you want to come?" said "All right I'll go." And so we were in this room it's all lit by candles at night and uh the
28:07
the guy you know it's like we all sat down it's like 40 of us in this little room and then everybody's in character
28:12
you know blocking frock and he says he says "Uh tonight," he said "I'm going to try and contact the spirit of woman
28:18
who's being killed a maid." He said "I'm getting the R RB." He says "Who's
28:23
initial RB please stick your hand up." So why you stick your hand up i said "Why you sticking your hand up?" She said "Cuz that was my initials." So they
28:30
went "Can you come down the front?" It was on my own i was so scared you know it was like theater they did this thing
28:35
i told you they got two people from the from the audience and they had them kneeling in front of a table right just
28:41
a normal table and the guy kind of went and the next thing table like hovered right and I I was I couldn't figure out
28:48
how they were doing it and I was looking I thought I can't see any wires and they said "Right what are we going to do i'm going to come around the audience." He
28:54
said "And then what I want you to do," he said "I want you to ask the spirit a question that the answer can only be yes
28:59
and no when I come and put your hand on your shoulder." So I was like "Okay." So I'm trying to think of a question now
29:05
and he comes around he puts his hand on the shoulder's shoulder and she says "Can my son play the piano?" And the table goes like man says "No." She said
29:13
"That's right he plays the violin." So I'm going "Oh I didn't know how did he do the tail?" She says "Come
29:19
figuring." Oh pushes down on my shoulder oh I was so scared i know when you're
29:24
scared your voice got really and I heard myself say "Do I like avocado
29:31
pants?" And the guy went "No no mate no no no no we're not doing that anymore." He said "Think of a number between 1 and
29:36
10." I said "What?" He said "Think of a number between one and 10 we're not doing that anymore." Think of I said "What?" He said "Oh [ __ ] it." He said "Forget i'll do something else." And I
29:42
saw as I sat there my head was like I couldn't wait to be over yeah so stay
29:48
away from Victoria Seos and and stay away from amateur wrestling if you're
29:53
dressed as potentially looking like a star comic book character yes so wait we
30:00
were turned up to Victoria so here I am so I travel on the train all the way uh from Wales on my Hello hello and uh yeah
30:08
so I come up the train and so Victoria Center it was really quite cool they had they had a big table where everybody
30:14
kind of dumped their little miniatures and uh and then they had artists different artists who'd worked
30:20
uh for Games Workshop uh they had a lot of designers and artists there and it was like a bit of a mingle so it was
30:27
great i mean I've got some bits and bobs to show you and a little bit more to say
30:32
about kind of what went on during the day okay cool so you've seen Tisha seen so
30:38
there was uh one so there was quite a few of the artists who'd worked uh on white dot most of them were kind of freelance I think at that point uh one
30:45
of them was a guy called Brett Euins um so basically it started off where you
30:51
had um quite a few like there was a lot of cabinet showing all the latest miniatures um at that time it was right
30:56
at the cusp of 40k coming in um so it was right at the start of I think really
31:02
1987 is a bit kind of watershed really for Games Workshop because um if you look at like the 80s I would say is
31:10
really where Games Workshop really kind of massively turbocharged if you look at you talked about where it was in like
31:16
say 1981 to where it was like no six years plastic kits they started they they I think there they are the first
31:22
rhino plastic kits which is like amazing cuz it was like no nobody had ever seen anything like that before i think now
31:28
you know with people getting the obby now there's so much there there's you know there's so so many different people so many different miners so much choice
31:35
so it's quite difficult sometimes to when you look at the first Rhino kit
31:40
it's like why has anybody got excited about that cuz it's like quite basic you
31:45
know the very first Rhino kit it looks a basic kit but at that time it was the biggest thing anybody had ever seen you
31:51
know well especially cuz prior to that they were trying to encourage you to make your own Arab blum and shampoo bottles and things like that
31:58
they so um Yeah so they they you started off so they they had all these different
32:03
artists like sitting behind uh behind tables uh kind of um working uh getting
32:10
some signing autographs and having a chat with fans uh it's really interactive i mean I think I am I've
32:15
been in games day now for a long time probably about 20 years last time I went when I was basically working it um and I
32:22
know a lot of this does not interactive you can't talk about this is that right yeah yeah so workshop I think um from
32:31
their point of view I believe is is cuz they're so massive now they want to protect their staff is is kind of like
32:38
the line that they uh tread so like everything is is quite anonymous in
32:44
terms of like who did that and who did this and team um so nobody really gets
32:49
given credit for sort of specifically what they've done uh yeah there's a few
32:54
loopholes which is proud to be part of the team that brought this where you heavily imply that you painted something
33:00
or drew something or whatever um to the point where like they've photoshopped out artist signatures out of old artwork
33:06
and that kind of thing yeah yeah i think then if you look at um I mean I brought is it this one in so this is uh it's a
33:14
Citadel Journal where they I think they they do that they still do this they don't they don't do the channel anymore
33:20
now they did it for a long time didn't they earliest issues I mean if you look at I suppose yeah I mean you know go
33:27
back to what it was like before I mean it was pretty it was very much personalityled was it this one oh that's
33:33
this one some photographs here of of uh of the of basically the whole of the team Bella Bella quiet it's only the
33:41
neighbor Yeah when you look at a he was all very much personality led so you know people like uh John Blanch people
33:47
you know if you open White Dwarf you'd see a photograph of John Blanch and you knew what he did or uh Dave Andrews um
33:53
so you know so you could talk you know they were there to talk to you and you knew who they were because they they
33:59
were promoted every week in white so um one of the first people I spoke to is a guy called Carl Critslaw um maybe some
34:06
of uh older kind of hobbyists who've been reading White for a long time would remember carris used to be a cartoonist
34:12
he used to do uh like a cartoon strip in Wolf called Thread the Barbarian oh I love Thread and uh uh Oh yeah so
34:22
so I asked for his autograph you want to see that it's great that's
34:28
really good so I asked for his autograph and I said and I was you know I was I was very well brought up so I said
34:34
"Excuse me Mr kitel can I have your autograph please?" He said the first person who said please oh I can b he
34:40
said so because that I'm doing a little sketch so thank you Carl and he's got the date on it and uh which is
34:45
interesting because obviously I live in Nottingham and that was the very first because I was living in Port was the actual first date ever came up to uh to
34:53
Carl nice guy and um yeah he's done quite a lot since he yeah he did some stuff he's just from I think so yeah I
35:00
think he moved over in um the other guy um ended up talking to some a lot of the
35:05
artists are selling their artwork as well and a guy called Bill
35:11
So he was another characterist cartoonist in a way who did a a strip for White Dwarf called
35:18
Gobbledygook and uh and basically should do like a one
35:23
like a one strip cartoon every every issue white off i think this is from uh probably 1985 84ish white dwarf yeah the
35:32
the humor was uh a bit basic but nice guy so he was there so about that very
35:38
cool chat with him Bill uh but probably the the blog I talked to the most and
35:43
had the longest chat with like I said there was a guy called Brett Euans uh Brett I mean I know him from old from
35:50
2000 AD one of my favorite um one of my favorite strips he he was the artist on that being Bad Company and say we were
35:57
talking about this before off air he was the again for the older hobbyists games Workshop used to release a lot of uh
36:04
games in a box and one of them was one called Chainsaw Warrior and he uh did the cover off for that as well and I did
36:10
the cover off for some of the Judge Dread games as well didn't he which were also released by if he did two because
36:17
there was one called Slaughter Margin i don't know if that was Brett Euins but he did um he did the box artwork for at
36:24
the time they did it see in the 80s what was kind of quite different in Games Workshop in the 80s to now is that Games
36:30
Workshop was licensing lots and lots and lots of different games yeah and so they they did like a lot of roleplay games
36:37
didn't they i think they did pretty much every um thing you can kind of think of they
36:43
probably did a roleplay game about it so like they they did a docky roleplay game and then they did they're all under
36:49
license from other companies and they do the miniatures for that um I was going to say so Brett was they
36:56
recently had a license they did a B a Judge Dread board game uh back in 83 something like that and then they they
37:02
did a 1985 they did a Judge Red roleplay game and they brought out two or three supplements for it and one of them was
37:07
called Block Wars and here is so this is the uh original uh this is
37:18
original box artwork for Block Wars so good what he told me really nice guy
37:24
Brett really chatty i was chatting for Asia and um this was the original the
37:29
original cover art for the block supplement that was rejected by Games Workshop and he had to go back and do it
37:34
again the one that they used is is that the the the composition is exactly the
37:40
same except it's got just a slightly different style oh but this is the um yeah the original for Block Wars oh
37:46
amazing so uh yeah so there's that and uh he also had some original 2008
37:52
artwork which he was selling must be a lot of 2008 fans who watch this so it'll
37:58
be very very cool to see that can see that yeah yeah
38:03
excellent yeah so I bought like three pages of the original uh 2008 artwork off him i still
38:11
want to give another one away as a gift um so yeah he was uh he was really nice
38:18
signed a lot of things um really really really chatty guy it was just I mean it was just so uh I
38:26
think probably for a lot of people just amazing to be able to to realize that it was a real thing you know because you
38:33
know before that I I mean at that time in 1987 I don't think there was even a games shop in Wales I think at that time
38:40
so it was just something he got through white off magazine you know but the chance to have a chat i mean when the
38:46
people walking around I had a I had a everybody's very very nice trish
38:51
Morrison's actually stopped and asked me what I thought the day I got her autographs there's uh is it that one you
38:57
see that one so I picked this up on the day because I thought be nice to get people's autographs so that was
39:04
uh you see that one so we've got We've got Trish Morrison
39:10
there we've got uh one of the Perry twins we've got Brian Anel bless him who's
39:15
passed away not long ago and we've also got John Blanch being the big one yes
39:20
and then we've got uh Kevin Kev Adams and Kev Adams yeah kev Adams amazing
39:26
painter uh really nice chap i had a little chat with him he I think sometimes if you look at you know when
39:32
people talk about you know the great great painters games workshop and uh for
39:37
some I think Kev Adams is is one of them if you look at a lot of his stuff uh
39:42
yeah I mean he he's known all for his goblins because Kevin goblin master as
39:48
used to be a b used to be a lot like that back then didn't it that a lot of uh sculptors were like pigeonholding to
39:54
certain things as far as was always like the like was she like doing big beasts yeah they call like queen of the queen
40:01
of the monsters or something queen of the dragons or something yeah but she was always like big scaled creatures and
40:08
so on and it's now my understanding is still a little bit like that they were like "Oh we got Steve he does the best
40:13
goblin hair." But we the problem being is now you just don't know do you which is the sad bit you don't get to know
40:18
who's like the the experts who've been making that particular miniature love yes yeah so I think that's probably one
40:24
of another big change so it went it was very much a personality le industry
40:30
which is sad to think isn't it um I Yeah in some ways i mean you know I suppose
40:36
as as you know I I guess without kind of going on too much of a massive tangent
40:43
you know I I think you say looking back for me probably lots of other people as well uh coming to it it kind of probably
40:48
turbo turbocharged a hobby for me um and got really kind of you suddenly realized
40:55
how big it was how much skill and and and kind of yeah what was going into it
41:00
um but I think and then years and years later I ended up working for games workshop managing uh uh some of the
41:07
stores in London and then through that I guess you know you see it from both sides and you see it as as as part of the business you also see it so as a
41:13
producer and a consumer I think but yeah I mean there's always kind of tension in a business between the needs of what
41:18
people want to buy of the business and they kind of want to sell but I think um yeah didn't you say you also had a book
41:24
from uh people's entrances from the first well is this this was published Uh
41:31
if you can see that one GW publication which was uh in 1988 so the year after
41:38
there's a little bit about the first golden demon painting competition most of it is um is from the second one which
41:45
is there's um they are a slightly different t-shirt for the winners of the second one i don't know when they
41:51
stopped doing that i wonder if if anybody knows when they actually must have stopped giving the funny thing with
41:56
that one was is that I was sitting looking through that in your h house one night and then the following day
42:03
somebody on Facebook put a photograph up of their miniature from the first Golden Demon and we are in that book oh
42:11
fantastic yeah it's quite um it's it's really interesting looking at some of the some of the stuff i mean how much of
42:17
it doesn't stand up but surprising how much how much of it still stands up you know it's a funny old thing isn't it
42:22
because I think we it's very easy to dismiss some of the older stuff with
42:29
regards to the fact that the painting isn't up to the standard of you know the painting now is just you know it's
42:35
phenomenal now but I also think you know for what what we knew at the time and
42:41
how people understood painting and and also the the level of quality of the miniatures you think some of it is
42:47
absolutely outstanding really yeah you know I mean it's quite for choice now aren't you you know if you if you're a
42:52
painter and you want to get into painting like miniatures or whatever and you go on YouTube it'll always be like whatever you want to paint there'll be six videos of it i mean then really some
43:00
exceptional ones are patched on them [Laughter]
43:05
well with this I mean at the time there was there was nowhere you could get your information from no no you had to have
43:12
books and magazines cuz you bought white i used to buy white dwarf every month just for the painting i I I mean I
43:18
wasn't particularly interested in playing games because like I said I work in steel works you know not going to
43:23
keep a space out Jeff yeah it's not um it wasn't uh it was very much I guess a
43:29
solo hobby I guess but there was you know there wasn't a great deal around you know I mean now you know in growing
43:36
up in the 70s and 80s it was very much make it all fun you know and and I and I suppose you know the thing is being a
43:42
kid young kid at the time and and the options that you had to spend your money on there wasn't a huge amount you know a
43:48
huge amount there wasn't a huge amount of things you could buy with it I mean just look at comics that was the other thing I think a lot of people in the And
43:54
you too you know but because there wasn't much else to do really
44:01
well yeah so um Well yeah i mean it was uh so it was
44:06
it was a full day and then uh and then they called the the the results out and I didn't win uh cried all the way home
44:15
have you seen It's a long journey as well back to South Wales yeah i cried so much three weeks later my stick insects
44:20
died i had no tears left that is a Have you ever you seen that you've seen locktock lock two swarming bars you
44:28
know the bit where he loses all that money yes and he comes out the place like that i was like center in such a
44:34
state of shock i didn't win then he told it took one minute i want to be a dog by Iggy Pop through your brain yeah four
44:41
hours all the way back over the train devastating i was quite surprised actually cuz I thought it was quite good
44:47
that's it and then yeah if if you'd entered Golden Gone Demon now you could make a video online and be like "Oh the
44:52
judges don't know what they're doing and this thing won and mine didn't." And mine's way better yeah and then on go on
44:59
the internet and just uh spread a lot of hate but uh Yeah so it's um it was a it was
45:07
it was extremely interesting day uh and it's amazing isn't it you know how small it was then compared to how big it I
45:13
mean me and you went to uh what was that board game uh thing where we went to long time ago with um it was in it was
45:20
in Masonic Lodge oh yes well that was that was um games expo yes but back in
45:25
the day when it was Yeah it was in Edgebast and then Masonic Lodge Masonic we ended up in Masonic Lodge in Edgebast
45:31
so in like a function room well it was a number of function rooms it had like a couple of like main It had like a big
45:37
main room on the bottom floor and then a quite a substantial size room on the second floor but then loads of what
45:44
would have been like smaller meeting rooms like you know you go or you walk into that meeting room and you go oh
45:49
look they're playing you know the Normandy Landons and you know and the miniatures would be getting sold and stuff so but it was but really strangely
45:57
was that there would still be obviously because it was a Masonic lodge paintings of famous Masons up on the walls and
46:03
masons who' served in wars their medals and then you know the way masons wear like a type of apron it belong to them
46:09
so it was really weird so the sort of Birmingham Games Expo was sort of weaved
46:14
through this Yeah thing and it was um and and the um the really funny bit is
46:20
is that you know one we've he's been mentioned on this show many times is uh Andrew Gibson Andrew Gibson who is
46:27
himself a Mason and I always think it's a shame he never got to see old Birmingham games expo because he'd have
46:32
been you thought imagine be able to turn up and enjoy both bits yeah you know
46:37
but you tempted to join after that though were we no we went no no no i think you look in an apron well you do
46:43
look in an apron well I think I look all right in an apron thank you take if you go I've already got an apron i think
46:48
they would say but unlike in the barber shop can you wear your trousers with it
46:54
they're a bit of a stick they are yeah they're not as easy going when you see when you've got your when you when you're a barber you can make your own
46:59
rules up you see that's the problem with Mason i don't I don't know if I fully understand what masons are they just are like businessmen or upstanding gentlemen
47:06
in society or something yeah secret society to hide your secrets yeah my dad joined the Masons
47:12
and uh the first night Yeah when he came home after the first night my mother said so uh she serious said uh so what
47:18
secrets did they tell my father said they told me it was shot Kennedy remember Jack group like he turned up for the three
47:25
minutes and all in Port and then he started going regularly
47:33
and then about 4 months later for my mother and he said uh he said I've forgotten the secret number he said I've
47:38
got to give a secret number he said in to get in the Mes he said I forgot the secret number what's the secret number you never told me he was
47:46
secret that's very long but yeah but um worries all We were talking about we
47:51
went to Birmingham Games Expo in Look how big that's gone cuz that's off in the masonic all know it's NBC and every
47:57
time you go it's taking up more and more space you know it's like three or four rooms now you know my my hope is that
48:03
you without sounding controversial but my hope is that the last time we
48:08
we attended they had taken on another hall which was just the hall for standing in the queue to get in correct
48:15
and you think surely going forward can maybe can we if we're taking on another
48:21
hall and it's mostly for queuing up could it also be the hall for Golden Demon can we maybe drag Golden Demon
48:27
back into Birmingham Games Expo which would be quite nice cuz as much as I I
48:32
bloom and loved Spiel and I really liked it i think I love Germany anyway so I'm a bit biased i speak a bit of the
48:38
language i like the food but I thought it was a really really good event i thought the setup for for seeing the
48:44
miniature was was mostly very good but I do think can you know can we have can we
48:49
have a golden demon back in the UK at least now and again when did they swap then when did they swap well they they
48:54
had their last one was Manchester which was just after CO I think or something like that yeah they had one in
49:00
Manchester and they had which was at the which was the big one and then they tried one before that which was the co
49:06
one where they limited the number of tickets so you had people who were slaving away over miniatures and then
49:12
and then couldn't get in there wasn't enough there was enough space to get them in warhammer World is quite a
49:17
limited capacity I think yeah they were controlling the numbers a because of the size of it and B because of co I think I
49:22
think and then the feedback from the Manchester one was so poor that I think they were just like cool well we you
49:29
can't have this nice thing anymore yeah it was mad to think now i mean I I ended up working for Games Workshop and I
49:35
didn't manage their stores in London and every store had to every store had a bus had to book a bus and then every store
49:40
had to fill that bus and take all the kids into Games Day in the NEC and Oh wow you know what kids used to do what
49:47
they were allowed to do sleep in the shop overnight before you caught the bus with grown-ups with me
49:54
good god jelly and ice cream midnight feast in the dawn no it was bizarre to think like I had a shop full of children
50:00
you were quite pressured to fill that coach as well weren't you oh yeah very extremely pressured yeah there was yeah because it was important you know it was
50:07
it was seen as as as this was you know it turbocharged people's obby you know and uh and and there was there was I
50:13
mean I don't know what they do now but then when you worked in retail you know every region every region you know
50:19
produced painted staff or a table to take to games day so all all in games
50:25
day was uh was generated within retail well I mean one year and there was
50:30
always like a bit of a competition between regions who could do the best table oh I'm sure there was and then uh I remember when you know um Epic Epic
50:36
Armageddon when they brought that back yeah so was like we really need an epic table and me one of my staff we spent
50:42
three months building this table and did all the stuff for it look amazing got on the bus take the games day got off the
50:48
bus set it up i said to him right got the rule book he said no have you got it i said I'm got it i said you haven't
50:54
played it to the audience all right everything was four plus i didn't
50:59
have four plus i mean I worked in retail for five six years i never knew how to play 40k oh what am I interested i used
51:06
to pretend I knew you had to do you had to do um intro games intro games everything was four plus in fact because
51:11
you weren't teaching people how to play you just giving them you know there's an air strike option in 40k
51:18
oh air strike there's an air strike yes there's an air strike a world test oh it's all right the signs are gone off and it plays okay oh wait wrong guys oh
51:25
no still my bus still on so somebody there was a story when
51:30
you then you then got bought the box and got home and searched religiously through that book and couldn't find the
51:36
rules for the air strike yeah do you know what there is rules for it it wouldn't exist because there isn't a model of it yeah and you know being a
51:42
store manager it's because I I was I was I'm a smith mostly I'm a Smith but worked in C
51:49
and yeah quite a few stores and uh because you're the store manager we know everything i didn't know anything how to
51:55
play the game so you like you'd have kids go and go right so my orc knob has got a gut and it's and he's got an armor
52:02
save two plus but he's in cover but he's being shot with about what is it four
52:09
plus two plus my imperial guardsman has a last
52:14
canon with a three but four plus okay off you go yeah that's hilarious but uh
52:19
I don't think anybody knew Trump it it did make me giggle that the um the kind of you get interviewed
52:26
as to to work there as as a they're like "Do you have any management experience?"
52:31
No they don't ask you that they're like "How well have you painted your space marine?" Yes yeah i mean yeah i mean as as a whole of
52:39
the program what it would like to still manage but uh yeah I mean we've got we've got time
52:44
a font of all hobby well I didn't know yeah i don't know anything but uh yeah but you know I I don't know what it's
52:50
like now working games shop stores are they is is Hammersmith still a store no gone yeah I
52:57
was amazed uh the first ever Games Workshop store was in Hammersmith around on a street called Darling Road the
53:03
shop's still there uh it was quite interesting there's there's if you look up there there's this photograph wasn't it there sometimes appears in White
53:09
Dwarf where you see the store with this big queue oh yeah yeah everyone in everyone in anorax and uh
53:16
and longer quotes yeah and um and it's quite interesting because when I when I miswith you used to get a lot of people
53:22
come in that had been in knew that shop you know what it was like and and it was a it was a game you know the first games
53:28
workshop so it was a game shop you go in there and you could buy like chess sets you know and it was yeah it was some
53:34
very odd things and then they they moved it onto uh was King Street main road in Armormith it's now um like we cash
53:41
checks oh right okay i went back uh about 10 years ago like a little mini pilgrimage and I went back and it's now
53:48
cash checks and there's a little block um who ran a calf and he's still there and I went in there and he was like a
53:55
Greek block because there see I was amazed he can remember me and I still went there every day for sandwich but uh
54:02
yeah that was uh but that's gone but I was amazed because it was the first GW store and they when I was when I worked
54:08
there they um they had a thing called the space marine shrine at the back of the shop which was um so
54:14
basically every year at games day they I mean some some of your older hobbyists might remember this uh from the ' 90s
54:21
but they used to do massive displays i don't if you've ever seen them in white off they when they did the Ptorian release they did this huge massive like
54:30
massive like static diarama effectively where Ptorian charging through things
54:36
i'm not seeing the flash but I've seen the photos of and then they did that one where it was an Empire town attacked by
54:41
like a plague fleet or something anyway then one year they did the whole Ultramarines chapter which I've seen
54:48
that in I've seen that in the Warhammer Museum so because Amid was the first GW store at some point before I took it
54:54
over I suddenly made a decision that you know we shouldn't do some inspection with this so we're going to turn the back of the shop into space marine shrine so they put the So I had the the
55:01
the whole ultramarine chapter in there and some stuff from the thousand marines isn't it yeah yeah all the sand gunships
55:08
and stuff that was there uh and then I think they just smashed they smashed a lot of stuff up cuz you
55:14
know like uh I say cuz you know what I that's what used to cuz you know when you're a kid and your pet dies and they
55:21
don't say your pet dies they go no no no it's it's it's gone to live with another family yes well you know if you make
55:26
something and it goes up to an office and they go "Where's it gone?" And they go "It's gone into a special storage
55:32
place and it'll be brought out at the right time." Oh great rather this is enough skip
55:38
that was thrown away and I suppos you know and and I suppose I mean it was great working in retail because you can
55:44
get to do you can work on stuff that you may always wanted to work on but you know through money or time and stuff
55:50
that you don't and um I worked in Ox Street for Ox Street store um during the
55:57
release of when when the Lord of the Rings game came out oh yeah and it was at the same time as when they got a city
56:02
fight yeah and um and like I basically when I was then
56:08
every Games Workshop store um or rather Ox Street store was seen as
56:13
like everybody who had everybody in the London area people worked there if they had like a bit of a bit of a thing on
56:19
something so I think you got uh Mike Anderson coming on the program well we're hoping to get Mike yeah really top
56:26
blog really really nice block he used to play on Saturday back painting uh I I
56:32
they asked me if I wanted to work to make scenery um so the first thing I did I was there for two weeks making a
56:37
ruined western ruined cathedral and like 4 foot square because it was like
56:42
wendians and um so it was it was it's a cool little place to work and I um so I used to do
56:49
all the all the gaming tables and um I did them for Ox Street and I did one over 24 hours once and I said look I'll
56:56
I'll start I'll start it tonight like it's like 3:00 they needed it really quick i said "Lock me in the shop." I said "I'll work it overnight." And then
57:02
and I did it because they needed a second order the ring stable uh so yeah I haven't did that it was a really interesting a lot of people who worked
57:08
in or at the time all went off and kind of did some interesting stuff so um friend a friend went Marian Marian he
57:16
ended up writing the four chaos books um Libra books they were fantastic they
57:22
weren't rule books they were like just law okay and didn't he and they were all but they were all a very pricey and b
57:29
quite unusual weren't they cuz d didn't he do the didn't was like the slash one didn't have like a rubber cover oh right
57:36
yeah well I helped him write the sloped right he came around I gave him a load of stuff well being the pave you are i'm
57:42
sure you were the ideal choice i said you know what he came around my
57:47
house i gave him a load of reference material and he said make sure the make sure the covers wiped clean
57:53
we we enjoyed a bit balance and then I set him up my flatmate so yeah so I he and then he he and then he came to the
58:01
when when I was man that's a good c level of customer service friend and um
58:06
yeah and he came and he did I got go and do a book signing he came and did a book signing in the store and we had Mike Gansson come down do paint
58:12
demonstrations um people went off and did publishing guy wasn't he the chap whose um was it his great-grandfather
58:19
was one of the people who attempted to assassinate Hitler yes von Shaffenburg yeah yeah he was Yeah
58:26
von Shaffenburg oh wow so uh played by Tom Cruz on the film oh yes
58:33
yeah so it was I mean Yeah i mean at that time it was uh he was uh Yeah interesting i think you know like um
58:40
looking back I suppose for for the the the Gondima competition 1987 I don't
58:45
suppose I I realized cuz like I I was living in Porto Stewworks you know um I
58:51
didn't think I would end up working for games shop i didn't think I'd end up moving to Nottingham you know and um but I think in hindsight you know it did
58:58
must have had quite a kind of turbocharged my interest in the hobby like it probably did with lots and lots
59:03
of other people who were there on the day um but yeah I mean and and and it's amazing when you
59:10
look at a lot of the people who were active in the obby obby then you know like Trish Morrison um they're still
59:16
still producing really amazing stuff you know i mean and this is coming up to almost like 40 years now isn't it
59:23
so yeah i mean it's amazing how something started quite small quite in a way amateur yeah quite niche yeah i mean
59:30
there's um it's quite interesting i don't know if it was this one I was going to showing you earlier they included a map in uh in white a
59:38
handdrawn map in white dwarf how to actually uh how to get to the uh to the
59:43
Victoria Center let's see one of these well I can't find it but yeah I mean it's all
59:49
very very kind of low-key and and I think really at at that point um GW was
59:57
sidel shop it was right at the point of becoming what they are now I think really
1:00:04
yeah no that's awesome i love hearing about it all well it was um Yeah i
1:00:12
mean I mean like I said I went I didn't win i came all the way home uh eventually pulled myself together months
1:00:18
later and uh and cracked on well thank you so much for bringing it
1:00:23
all in it's been really interesting to hear about it and and I'm hoping it's uh some of the older hobbyists out there
1:00:29
it's uh tugged on the memories a little bit as well yeah i mean I I don't know i mean the thing is sometimes you know
1:00:35
when like you said come on and have a chat yeah i mean it was like well I don't know how how many other people
1:00:41
were into the obby at that time how how universal a lot of of of my kind of experiences in the Aubry is to other
1:00:47
people i mean it was a very small kind of thing then but obviously it's uh Yeah
1:00:54
yeah i mean like from my perspective it's great seeing like where So I mean where we're where we're at currently
1:01:00
with everything and be like "Oh that's exactly where it all came from." Yeah um and I've seen it in the flesh we need to
1:01:05
see the uh the space marine in the blister oh yes yes and hang on there's my little
1:01:12
Yeah so um the other thing I was gonna Well this relates back to our very first interview isn't it yeah with Bob with
1:01:19
Bob yeah well this has been released I think the year before maybe
1:01:25
and there it is hallowed bit so yeah yeah imperial Space Marine it's an Ellie
1:01:31
what is it does it say Is it LE2 yeah so that see that yeah i'll get
1:01:40
another I'll get a closeup and stick it in over the top so it was um I I think what what people may not be aware of or
1:01:47
may have forgotten about is that when that miniature was released it was released before 40k and it was released as part of uh what they call limited a
1:01:54
limited edition series and so what they did was they decided that they were going to just bang miniatures out under
1:02:01
this thing le anything that was unusual so that was so that's Ellie 2 i can't I
1:02:07
can't remember the sequence but basically in that series the LE series there was uh like a skeletal astronaut
1:02:14
he was a Father Christmas there was like a space Father Christmas yeah of course yeah not an
1:02:19
ordinary one with a gun yeah of course uh space Father Christmas uh tulip a uh
1:02:26
skeleton Father Christmas there was like a space what's called a space goblin it was a 40k orc and then there was another
1:02:33
kind of marine in a like an exon armor circularly reminded me of something else so they were actually released as like
1:02:38
this is a cool little thing what do you think you know it was when in 198 in
1:02:44
1987 for the the first gold demon they had uh the basically that was when they
1:02:50
were showing this is 40k this is coming it was 40k was released um about two
1:02:55
months after I think but part of the big draw was that they had a lot of the miniatures there on sale and a lot of
1:03:00
stuff uh that you could see before it was you know in advance but yeah so that
1:03:05
was uh so you you can kind of I mean for the first one I showed it I mean what's that six years between them so that's
1:03:11
that's what a 16 would have looked like in what that's what it would have looked like years later and it's lovely to see
1:03:17
that it's got Swansea Models and Hobbies Limited yes and it cost a grand total of 60 p well yes that's that's like I guess
1:03:24
with a lot of obies that's where all my money went on obby yeah but um because
1:03:30
I've seen um those ministers before i've seen some for sale like just the the
1:03:35
lead i've never seen one in the blister yeah i I don't know i mean it it's amazing how much is out there i mean you
1:03:42
know if you go on the internet now how many people have got sealed stuff i mean there's there's a there's a Facebook group calling like valuations of sealed
1:03:50
all right and I put a photograph on and some guy some guy from America came out but you've got the holy grail of seal
1:03:56
miss of those yeah so um it's Yeah i don't know how many of those are like that but uh so yeah it's um never 40k
1:04:04
space marine well because you had Bob on yesterday we did we had Bob on twice actually Bob is one of the few guests
1:04:10
we've had on more than once yeah i mean I think the other thing which is quite um uh the other thing about the other
1:04:16
interesting thing I'd say about about 40k is that how very at the time when it came out how very very very different it
1:04:23
was to any other kind of science fiction background that was out there yeah so it was you know it was it was extremely
1:04:30
unusual because most science fiction I think at that time was quite optimistic wasn't it in a way Star Trek you know it
1:04:36
was like yeah you know you know we'll go to space and humanity will be better yes you know you know you know what's like
1:04:42
that well you know what when we when we in space on the spaceship it's going to be even better we're going to be even nicer you know we're going to be more
1:04:47
pleasant you know whereas in 40k he's like "No we're just human with beers down for nothing you know." So it's uh
1:04:54
so and the artwork was was amazing so I think um yeah the gold demon bit and and and uh the the release of 40k it was
1:05:01
quite a pivotal appeal of all time I think cool okay love it right before we
1:05:07
wrap up I think it's only fair seeing as you were very kindly gave your time to come up and hear to hear
1:05:14
you have a business connected to this don't you uh yes yes I do Jeff
1:05:19
well it's only fair is you gave your time up would you like to Would you like to slightly plug your business slightly
1:05:25
plug my business okay so it's an eBay shop called Ander Collectibles it's belt
1:05:30
oh god no it's all right i'll stick a link in the description thank you yeah we wouldn't expect the owner of the
1:05:36
business to know the name of the business it starts with an
1:05:42
A so yeah so it's it's uh just GW stuff and Bits and bobs and some of this stuff
1:05:48
u might be going on sale shortly so uh yeah all these old uh copies of Bits
1:05:53
and Bobs the original artwork it's awesome well Tim thank you so much for coming on it's been really we really
1:05:59
really appreciate it and uh I think uh like I say it's uh it's nice and relevant at the moment with a another
1:06:05
golden demon absolutely about to happen probably by the time this episode goes out thanks very much for joining us
1:06:11
appreciate it it's uh it's been really good coming out cool so as usual if you don't already subscribe to
1:06:19
the show why you're not is beyond me um like hit the notification share tell
1:06:25
your friends how great it is and uh that' be really kind and a final big thank you to the Patreons who literally
1:06:31
help keep the lights on we love you all thank you so much for your continued support and says thanks as well cool so
1:06:39
everyone bye-bye thank you bye there we go was that all right that was wonderful
1:06:46
thank you very much i didn't quite know no it's fine we don't we've been
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