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The Old World Falls but Cadia Stands?
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Nov 21, 2022
Peachy & Geoff Talk about the destruction of the old world, with some insight from inside Games Workshop, the fall of Cadia, and primaris marines. Join our Patreon: https://patreon.com/thepaintingphase Help Support the channel with our affiliate links: UK: https://elementgames.co.uk/?d=10835 EUROPE: https://taschengelddieb.de/?affiliate=tpp US: use code paintingphase to get 10% off at https://www.goblinshut.com/ Follow us: https://www.instagram.com/thepaintingphase/ https://www.instagram.com/__peachy_tips__/ https://www.instagram.com/geoffsavory/ https://www.instagram.com/pileofshamepaints/ Where we get our music: https://artlist.io/Patrick-75781 Check out Faith and Damnation Hobby Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/14562…
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0:00
hello I'm p and I am Jeff and today we're taking another one of those Willy Wonka F Chocolate Factory style dives
0:07
into games work shop Peach's going to be my un pumper guide I'm going to be
0:12
Charlie and as a man far too old to be wearing these school boy shirts Pat as always is naked but unfortunately today
0:18
he's now having to share a bed with three other old way PRS welcome to the pain in the
0:26
face people have asked about it and there's been some other little B and
0:31
mobs people have been saying on the comments that they now that they've got access to someone who's been Behind Enemy Lines
0:38
Behind Enemy Lines they enemies well no no no it's just it's be exercise yeah I
0:45
don't know now how to take myself out of eny Lin so not to say with it to go with it but anyway cuz you you work there for
0:52
a number of years you've been at the factory there's been questions people have had have been wanting to have been people have been asking out interested
0:58
about different as specs on one of the ones that's come up a number of times is
1:04
not something I have a great deal of knowledge of but I know a bit is your feelings towards the Old Worlds of Warhammer
1:12
going and age of sigar Rising Phoenix light like for mat ases yeah it's one of those popular kind
1:19
of like questions you get asked in when you Workshop obviously you got to be well it's what happened I think was
1:27
the right thing to do all right but I think it could have been done better okay um so I'm a a loyal fan of
1:35
the old world have been for many years had like Warf armies chaos armies um got
1:41
Empire Dogs of War big fan very big fan um and there came a point certainly
1:48
probably like before a couple years before the age of Sigma um Phoenix Rising if you like yeah um that when
1:56
sculpts were trying to make new cool stuff there was a lot of restriction and what you could or couldn't do because
2:02
you've now made a very rigid historical setting that can't really go anywhere
2:09
because it like if you want to there was there was an idea of introducing tanks for dwarfs right the dwarf steam tank
2:15
kind of thing and no one like well I like the I painted one all but I like the aesthetic I it look Mega but certain
2:21
people didn't like it and it wasn't then ever used um so you had all these cool things that had access to the thing that
2:28
did get through was the gyrocopter cuz we had gy in the past something new and fandangled like a tank we've never mentioned that in history before funny
2:35
thing is so the little that I noted was it Empire had one didn't he well yeah because that was uh Marco is it Marco
2:42
Columbo or the other guy um I forget the guy now he's basically like um Leonardo da Vinci all right Leonardo something
2:49
drop it in the comments because I can't remember my head he's so filled full of like names these days but yeah so he was
2:55
like some kind of te and design so was like this is literally a one there was only ever 12 so if you ever wanted an
3:00
army of 50 you couldn't because I only ever 12 historically we made all these restrictions as a as a company as cool
3:07
as I loved it cuz like I said had an Empire on had onad i' had been bought up on that
3:12
background I love that background I love the Empire I love the fact they got Sylvania next to it so you had like this kind of fractious I would't even say
3:19
Alliance it was like we won't invade org to the slam because it's full of dead people yeah but we know they Invaders
3:25
and we've got like little bits here and there so and they Al have all the different states the Empire States and obviously the rest of the world and
3:31
there was areas we didn't concentrate on what you could have done stuff with um and yeah so I was very fond of the
3:37
background very fond of the stories but I understood we couldn't go anywhere of it and you'd always be restricted so
3:43
whenever you did something new it was just a re Envision version of like the dwarf Slayers or um the dwarf hammerers
3:50
so when the dwarfs came out I did new hammerers which were like could be long beards you did Iron Drakes that was new
3:55
that was accepted like Dres with guns that was okay cuz they fir down the tunnels really mention but it does work
4:01
yeah um so you could do like the other one here and there but you know having access to new Plastics was good I wanted to see plastic troll Slayers wanted to
4:08
see like new sort of Empire State troops and stuff like that all like plastic tians and things so the way it it kind
4:14
of went about was there was a lot of things that were going off at the same time and people taking the IP I mean you
4:21
could argue that games workshops IP is based off the old world certainly is Old World yeah and and it well it it's cover
4:29
so many things doesn't it it's like old historical yeah Earth you know and then
4:35
also a lot of it is you know can't I can't find the way to say it's basically
4:41
very heavily Tallen ass yeah oh yeah absolutely I me and you've got like a setting which is a parody of like our
4:48
planet yeah um and that's that's cool and back in the day when they were like making like we're talking 8s here cuz I
4:54
got some of the old rule books from time that they didn't have access to fancy things so they used historical figes
5:00
which is why brettonia exists which is why um the Empire The Empire is very renissance sort oh yeah absolutely black
5:06
powder level stuff Bron is more like French Knights and then you know you might get some Barbarian looking I don't
5:12
know kelt and then give him like weird looking skin tones to make him a bit ory or whatever so so that that that as a as
5:20
a background and as a setting came from historical War Gamers wanted to do a fantasy thing they had access to
5:25
historical figures but eventually as they got sculpting doing and going on they started to you know make weird and
5:31
wacky kind of things but it still had a cool set in that could only go so far which is parades of like EUR Medieval
5:38
Europe or whatever um but as a result of that it's also quite hard to keep as an
5:45
IP of your own because you kind of Taken other things so it's like well they're just French Knights right they're just
5:50
Ln you know yeah because the problem to some degree I suppose with elements of
5:56
um of uh Warhammer fantasy is that you could have just raided normal medieval
6:04
Rangers and and like you say Renaissance Rangers and just built armies for without like going down this path but
6:11
for for less money than it would have cost you to buy yeahi and I think in that day that's what people did um and
6:17
then obviously they became very iconic so the dwarfs are very iconic of games which only they had a tolken Vibe but
6:23
they were very different token um dwarfs um the elves again you had like
6:28
different faction yeah cuz you had your your basically your wood elves who were very t con and
6:35
your High Elves which again very T Dark Elves yeah not so yeah and but then dark
6:40
elves are taken from Norse mythology which is you and you've got malakith there which is as we know if you've ever seen the Marvel films they've taken that
6:46
from Games Workshop no why your neck in Peach that's not mythology so do you think it was a bit do you think as well
6:52
they were a bit frightened to um create any new bases I think so because the
6:57
history wouldn't allow it cuz were they yeah where they've been all this time yeah yeah so I suppose with Warhammer
7:04
40,000 is that even though they do it don't do it particularly often yeah um
7:10
some of it has been written but never had like you would did they' been adeptus mechanicus forever yeah they
7:16
just never been an army you only seen them mainly in Imperial Guard forces as
7:22
the mechanic but that was it he didn't get an army of them and you know so there is there's a whole that's probably
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by name off the top of my head 10 races or factions that exist in name only and
7:34
also as well you go oh we went to the far ends of the Galaxy and these guys gave bloody nose and now they are a bunch and I suppose when you are dealing
7:40
going Le in one world suppose it is harder to do you are right and go where have they been I mean there were a couple of places that had names with no
7:48
sort of factions that's so tillia became a thing during like um probably the
7:53
early 90s when the dogs of war came out yeah then the only other faction I'd probably say was made from that was the
7:59
kingdoms which we traveled a bit further east and you're like you know what let's just make some Mongolian esque looking
8:05
ogers that eat flesh and you know worship flesh and have gi big Ms and
8:10
stuff like that yeah but then there was things like Cafe nipon AIA nipon very
8:15
much I believe nipon is thees for Japan so he don't has really like SC in the B
8:22
for names but I wonder what they yeah so Samurai then you had like
8:27
ca which was the I think they were like the dragon monks they they refer to them so I imagine monks but dragons yeah so
8:33
like bipedal dragons maybe and then that's going down the route of dragon so yeah you are you infringing on like
8:38
Dragon lces I I suppose as well the problem to some degree is that
8:43
um was that blatantly initially Mantic created this
8:51
whole range of Miniatures that were blatantly designed to go you can use
8:56
your house as war hammer mines if we will do well elves which he can't stop us doing elves because very El elves and
9:03
they're G and we'll do them with this sword we'll do them with that Shield we'll do them with that halt we'll do them with this we'll do with that we'll have them on this ride and that ride and
9:09
that and it was basically just going hey you've got your Warhammer fantasy book but here's yeah our asan and it's a bit
9:16
cheaper yeah and you know and I think on until such point in time as uh I can't
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even Kings of War it's called Kings of war is before Kings of War got all of um
9:28
uh the sh a long oh yeah thank you when they got when
9:34
they got hold of him then they were able to make it much more their own thing but initially it was like we're going look
9:40
you got that rule book buy these Miniatures they're and they're close enough that you can't it's not copyrightable that it's a problem you
9:47
could make el you can make dwarfs so I think that was the and like there was like a lot of stuff going off with legal
9:53
side of things during that time so I understood why a sigma would become
9:59
a thing it made perfect sense because then you can make factions and I'm a big fan of old world and I'm a huge fan of
10:05
AG of Sigma because for two different reasons I was brought up on the old world love the stories love the books
10:10
love the set in but I love as a hobbyist that creates stuff what I can do with age of Sigma because it's a black canvas
10:18
but at the same time that's a big danger because it's a black canvas you aren't as attached to things where you've got
10:25
those years of like I love Talib and that's the one state I'm I'm a fan of there's people that are like oh I really
10:30
like n or I really like you know old D I'm like no I'm a I'm a t of the clan I like yellow and red together they look
10:36
great MH um so and dwarfs was one of my first factions my dad brought me a blister pack of dwarfs and you know that
10:42
became my first faction and I just painted them up I didn't really think about dwarf holes then when I got a bit more into it I like oh you can have
10:47
different holes with different color schemes and then yeah yeah when I was in the O penting scene we did zuar and um
10:54
zubar didn't have a color scheme at the time and they already generated color schemes and I was like maybe I I did like a sort of a sky blue not sky blue
11:01
um where it's Thunder Hall blue I'm trying to think what kind of tone of blue that is is he it's kind of like a gray blue as yeah it's a smoky gray but
11:08
bright blue um and then I did it with white as like quarter I thought I was very CED but at the same time it's
11:13
different to all the other colors keep did and I really enjoyed that Army and that's when more like building up different things and stuff um so I got
11:20
quite invested in some of the armies that we did and I very invested in the old world and the stories but we started
11:26
to do this thing called the end times it very obvious what was going to happen the title called the end times now
11:32
previously I mean a lot of fans out there will be like you know it wasn't it I I think from personally from being
11:37
involved in it from behind and I think and I know from conversation with a lot of people we all agree we could have had
11:43
that going a bit longer yeah and the reason being is the first one that came out was the gash and had a bunch of like
11:48
scenarios and story narrative driven stories and scenarios to play for like a campaign almost and by the time like
11:56
friends were like building up collections to play in this campaign and like oh we're going to get in the gash
12:01
because they made a cool model of him I'm going to build this faction to fight against him there those of stories and like if he wants to do like a big Grand
12:07
lights it recommends these kind of things by the time you like even mustered a fraction of this B the new
12:13
book was out yeah Kane's out and I'm like God I'm got got a bit of catch up to do I mean I paint fast but yeah I got
12:21
a bit of catch up do you think do do you think um was any of it financially based was
12:27
was waram was Warhammer fantasy was it oh yeah compared to this is why I think
12:32
it I understood the reason as as as a move for two reasons to to make
12:37
your um property your IP copyrightable
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but also to sell stuff because as much as people out there talk about yeah I'm I'm a big fan of uh old world I'm a
12:50
sixed stoic where were you yeah this is often the case as so because I used to
12:55
work in the stores and 40K is always the top seller 4K was the biggest seller
13:01
M um Warhammer always suffered it was always the second core game it was always class as the second core game cuz
13:07
it always suffered it was never going to ever compete with 40K Lord of the Rings came out that became our second that
13:12
almost wow Chanel to the same level is 40k for while and even after 40K sorry a
13:18
lord of rings had ended and we even had the dip it was still class as the second core game and Warhammer was down here so
13:24
we used to run beginners courses and do intro gaming and for K was always fully
13:31
books so we used to do like two beginner sessions of 40K just to try and get the numbers in lordings was always pretty we
13:36
used to do one on a Sunday it was pretty filled Warhammer you lucky if you can scrap two people wow so usually it'll be
13:43
like on a Sunday like what we used to call like chill out time so you'd have like 40K was in the morning you're like
13:49
oh my God it's going to be so busy like 40 kids coming in we teach them how to play 40K and have a load of laughs but it's going to be busy then Lord rings I
13:55
love Lord rings are like I send you like 12 kids it'll be fine we'll just do like Tom or something like that it's like
14:00
yeah T shot makeup SE got one guy coming in he's got Empire I'll use my dwarfs or something like that yeah I mean
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obviously when you look at he wasp about 45 like well yeah it's yeah that's
14:13
that's bad so he needed something to to I'm happy to come and play Warhammer but have you got a check cuz me hip's not what it was yeah man yeah but yeah so it
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it did suffer as a core game and it's because um there was a lot of Old Guard that like would only ever use the same
14:27
armor or never buy anything new there's a lot of people that made a lot of noise when when it died and a sign came around
14:33
there was a number of problem so there's a number of things here Pat once said to me uh when he was working there and it
14:38
made a really good point that I never really thought of at the time was when people ban the drum that their army is
14:44
and getting a codex as soon as they would like or it's not getting new models yeah Pat one said to me that
14:49
there was an imperial fist uh Captain released that in one year brother heresy
14:56
heretic for the emperor burn them all repent I don't know that from my obvious
15:02
might been a conversation it might been about I mean that is that happened a lot and and this is the problem is there people bang you right and see they Bang
15:08
the Drum they go where's me stuff I want this I want that and he going but and it's a double Ed sword doesn't he going
15:14
well if you don't keep buying it when or is inclined to make new stuff for it but at the same point in time if you've been
15:20
an an Old Guard tuned player you get to the point where you've got everything haven't you exactly yeah and you can't
15:27
can't keep making new stuff you you you go well you know there's nothing else for me to buy same like Empire if I
15:34
collect Empire once I've got like all the types of State troops and I'm like don't know you know I've got four units of Spear four units of HS a couple units
15:40
of archers do I want to do another state no I'll just keep using this and you know right or wrong that that's people's
15:46
choices but then don't complain when yeah when it's taken away from you never you you say about the fact that there
15:53
must have been some people shocked that they went and that's the end yeah and you're going well you know the title of
15:58
the of the campaign was the the end ties but I think the problem being the thing sometimes is is that often there's been
16:05
these big monumentous campaigns and realistically get to the end of them and nothing happens so this is because there
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Warhammer 40,000 the ey of Teran abon is on his way this is going to happen and
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then he went oh there you go and everything just the same as you said that was part of that campaign it was
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like this summer a world world die as a world no one knew existed with phind and no one cared about
16:27
so no it did die you're not wrong but no one cared about it didn't when kdfl a
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lot of people cared about book so I'm going to come back to that in a second yeah or 10 15 maybe three minutes because we waffled um but so um yes we
16:42
had campaigns like the stall of chaos and the stall of chaos I was there when that happened he had this characters blacksmith called Vol and he was
16:48
supposed to be like Sigma reborn and it went through cool story threads being battle the end at Mid L um and after all
16:56
the dust has settled it didn't change any yeah Fon died like the brand new character that exist that were just
17:03
brought in for this campaign died no one else did Gazo not gazol tracker um
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forget his name now uh is it GG that's Gaz tracker the 40 Grim I know G
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headbutts arc on doesn't kill him just headbuts him yeah I'm I'm the toughest
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guy here and then heads off home it's like cool what an anticlimax nothing happened so the end times happened
17:27
people thought oh it's in that vain oh and gone you've just blown up oldorf oh my God no's gone what's going on here so
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when things started get destroyed it was that kind of Game of Thrones kind of like where characters getting killed off
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it started to feel real that people where heart was and I forget what it's called I can't if it was like sigma's
17:45
blood that was a tiny Prelude to the end times it was like a small little campaign pack and at the end of that
17:51
vmar the Grim gets killed by um Ark and the black cuz they're Recon in the gash
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which is one the first book comes out called Nash Nash exists and there's like a um I'm trying to think who are some of
18:03
the other character some other characters get murdered basically and have their throat sit around this this Temple that was like the Prelude to the
18:09
end times now from the studio point of view I can't remember I'm I'm not going to confirm or deniers I can't remember
18:15
if we stated when it first started if we were going to destroy the world or if that was something that we understood later on but we did that was a campaign
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set called the end times and it would change the history of of warham and
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that's definitely I do remember that conversation but I don't remember if like were we aware at the start it was going to blow up or not I can't remember
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but but my my biggest B bear was there wasn't enough time between books to play games yeah yeah so I think and a lot of
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people after and this is the thing when you make these changes which benefited uh gamees later on when we did
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like the fall of kadia stuff because we gave a bit more time between books and give time for like some of the changes
18:52
but you would you could have had time to play the games before the next book comes out time to play the games and you
18:57
know took in some more releases and stuff because it was so Compact and so rushed and then went B straight into age
19:03
of Sigma we' redone the setting H I think that's what jar people a lot I I don't think it gave them time to come to
19:09
terms yeah and also time to play through these cool scenarios cuz those books were so well written yeah and a lot of
19:15
writers like Phil Kelly Matt Ward were all involved in it and I've I've still got the books I probably won't ever play
19:21
the game but I love reading those books cuz the narrative in those my favorite is Kane yeah um and the reason for that
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is Mal K is a knob for most of the story and he is all the way through that book
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but then because he think his arrogance is so big because he thinks he's going to be a phoenix King like that this is
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why it becomes a dark elf he believes he's the Phoenix King and arrogantly goes in but doesn't stay long enough because he has to understand that you
19:45
have to go through the pain and then once you come on the other side you're you're worthy and he it's too hot oh no
19:52
and Dives out and then gets horribly scarred and stuff like that but then he has to do it because he needs to do it
19:58
and that when he has that kind of character Arc of like oh yeah I am I just I am the Phoenix King now yeah I
20:03
need to sort out my my own problems and my mom's gone a bit weird she's hanging around and converting with some sles
20:10
demons but we'll talk about that later um but yeah so that was a really cool sort of character for him and lots of
20:15
other things and um seeing like elves which would always like INRI for instance INRI is held is like one of
20:21
these kind of cool elf characters he's a good guy yeah the very I think it's the very first part of that story and
20:27
there's a one of because he used to have lots of gates in Orwin I think it the Griffin Gate or the Phoenix gate and
20:33
they're basically been attacked by dark elves and Malice so this the thing I loved about um the end times is anything
20:39
that was a resin character was going to die so in the story when Mal malus D
20:44
blades say like you're a resing character so sometime during this story you're probably going to get topped off
20:49
and he dies in the first chapter um and like all these guys are defending killing the dark elves and suddenly all
20:54
these dragons start appearing their eyes like yeah im's here imri signed with the dark elves right and you're like oh I
20:59
wasn't expecting that he just murders a load of his own Kinsmen um so there was loads of cool stories in there and it
21:05
was really well done I just wished it gone on longer and if that had happened I think as a business we could have
21:10
prepped a of Sigma a bit more because I think I think this is and this isn't uh
21:17
a problem that game direct shops had before isn't it is the fact that the one that stung a lot of people
21:24
was kill team ending and kill team starting was when they brought out that box that was a whatever it was called
21:31
the one where it was the um it was the first time you'd seen the um the primoris heavy intercessors oh and you
21:38
were Fons and they fighting the necrons on that weird little nekron scenery yes they' gone this is like an arena and
21:45
it's this and look it's new guys and it's that and it's an expansion and a lot of people were going doesn't seem
21:51
like very good value and also it was the first time they'd sort of done Miniatures the first time you'd seen
21:57
them was in Kill box everything else had been a pre-exist there yeah and it was like
22:03
yeah so two new kits straight in people want to go out and buy it rush out and buy it because it's got fade brand new
22:09
feds who are really nice heavy intercessors who are really nice and then W and that's the end of it and then
22:15
you and you know and people were and you know remember reading that people were like liveed at the and I think um I do
22:23
sometimes think I don't agree with all the games where chopes a lot of them do I think it just could be a little bit
22:30
more of read the room about how you do yeah yeah I wasit reading the room and I
22:35
know you've got an ultimately gone switch that off and switch that on I know it has to happen at some point in time but I think um that one it was like
22:44
people we particularly happy about the box and they were quite cross and they go you know I'll make them happier what completely changing the game system you
22:50
know and then and you know I don't get wrong it is a better game system yeah so I mean age of Sigma is the same so um I
22:56
like the minua of uh Warhammer yeah but I like the way a of
23:01
Sigma plays and I found that could be more tactical a of Sigma there might be some people that disagree again it's not as tactical but the way you deploy your
23:07
men and you get natural flank attacks I remember we we had these Road shows going on when a s was you know in its in
23:13
its infancy and i' gone to um Essen Spiel and I was with a couple of people I went to centry as well I got sent to
23:20
centry Y um and it was about just just explaining we had like yeah we talk
23:25
through like some of the rules and stuff and the idea was it was four pages of rules um and I think it's it's gone a bit mad
23:32
now there's like very stri back originally wasn't it and this is like
23:37
Star Wars Legion do this they have a very simple rule but which is free you download it the important thing is
23:43
what's on your cards and your grade cards that's that's the information that makes your unit or your faction different so when you're like getting I
23:50
know Cassie Andor and you upgrading with different things and depends what you want to upgradeing with if you get old selection of cards it just says you can
23:56
have these upgrades and some are specific some of just generic ones yeah um that changes the game and you there's
24:02
less to think about because everything you need to think about is in front of you which is why I was like four pages of rules for a I can get behind that
24:09
some real simple sort of terrain rules some magic rules but then you had your data sheets which had like no all the
24:14
information you needed and it was so well done um that there was no sort of like ambiguity it was like this is what
24:21
you need on the dice to hit this is what you need on the dice to wound yeah this is how attack get and if you have a
24:27
banner bear musician Champion these are the benefits you get and you got a cool Special Rule if there's characters close to you and it's like that's all I need
24:33
to wor about about that unit I don't have to go through what's the special Ru Fearless hang on give me a minute yeah yeah oh it's not his book is it it's
24:39
this book no it's not but it was that book so you know you're having all these like posted notes on the side tell you
24:45
all these different special rules so I loved it for the Simplicity of that but it could still get quite in depth yeah
24:51
tactically you could do lots of cool stuff depend on how you organize your men and how like you piled in um the
24:58
weest thing and at the time you had to get behind it and be positive about it was the no points thing oh that was
25:04
really odd wasn't it it was like I don't I don't think Gamers can be trusted from
25:09
point I mean I think we discovered that so I mean I'm from some of the just historical war game and you don't play
25:16
points a lot of time you you reenact battles yeah right so sh have roughly what you need so if you're reenacting
25:23
waro or quatra bar or something like that and you know that I've got some Kings G Legion in hon and I'm going to
25:29
get attacked by a few friend columns yeah and I'm going to have some Rifleman in there as well and you know handful
25:35
stuff and the idea is we're probably going to get pasted but it's to see how long we can yeah hold how long last that
25:41
that's the point of that there not points it's just like y seven brigades of French a small Brigade of King's gy
25:46
and Legion hold off for hours long as you have some fun drink some beer eat some crisps Wicked and then watch wle
25:52
when you done um and that it was that mentality but between people that want a
25:57
competitive game yeah they want to win narrative Gamers could get it I mean I'm a narrative gamer I could just go I mean
26:02
the way I used to deal with it is I'd like go let's have like three characters and like six units so I just turn my
26:08
data sheets upside down and go there the character on there unit on one 2 3 four five one two 3 and like cool I've got
26:15
these today yeah um so that was weird no points and I think a lot of people
26:20
struggled with it to the point where people continue to struggle with it until we made points so I mean there was like guys out
26:26
there on the internet bless you going I've worked out some mass that if you go with wounds that's a really good way of trying to deal with it that's not that
26:33
side so there's all this conversation going off and this is why I think it was a bit rushed it could have been given a
26:39
bit more time but the thing that I would say about a of Sigma was it skyro
26:45
rocketed sales and interest in in fantasy um and you still had all the
26:50
factions so you know I had Empire I had Undead I had dwarfs and there was rules to use those eventually the dwarfs holds
26:57
became the dispossessed yeah the iron World Arsenal and for me um my biggest
27:03
sort of pet project was me doing the C of Sigma stuff so it wasn't the cities of Sigma at the time it was just called
27:09
the Grand Alliance like different pack like free Guild IR World Arsenal dispossessed and I was like I want to
27:14
make a a city in my own head that's somewhere in the the Mortal Realms because the Mortal Realms is vast yeah there's some places like the when we
27:20
first brought the first book it was like this is the great parch like a Slither of land in this massive orb of the the
27:27
real of Fire so it's like well you could do anything then I mean I'm going to go over here cuz no one's ever going to go over there
27:33
in the IP the next 10 years so I'm I'm going to folus on here so I made a city called Hal Guild and I was like imagine
27:39
if you've got elf dwarfs and humans all living in the same city you're going to
27:45
have like a blacksmith down the road who's probably got an elf Smith and maybe a dwarf Smith and maybe there's
27:50
another Armory around the corner that has a mix of all three so I started doing like head swaps with characters I
27:55
like I only use this head on the elves but that elf head that's got the hood on some great swords mhm and then I painted
28:01
him a color that tried to um move away from any color of State troop sort based
28:08
stuff so the problem with the Empire States is it it's based on the Swiss
28:13
cantons and they all have every pretty much every possible color combination
28:19
yeah so when you try and combine like cuz my um halil stuff was white blue and
28:25
mid times's white and blue and you could could argue that well you you could say like Rand is like cream off white and
28:33
sometimes you have flashes of blue so it was like trying to make an AR it didn't look like one of the states that's what
28:38
did gold armor and they did like teal sort of like off teal kind of color so like it doesn't look like a state now it
28:43
just and got dwarfs in there and I just went for this like M sort of like it's just a mixture it's just a m part races
28:49
and I really enjoyed that sort of creation of something myself yeah which
28:54
I won't say it it inspired c as a sigma but I think it some people go well yeah you say you can
29:00
do different things and this is the thing a lot of conversations I had when at these Road shows going what what what do you like in D and D like I'm a really
29:07
big fan of Dr was like cool paint your doors a can of Dr yeah you could literally all on they're from the r with
29:13
Shadow yeah paint them with literally Ashen skin or purpley Ashen skin with
29:19
bright white hair yeah but they have they have Spider Riders old Riders I like cool make your maloi ladies with
29:27
spider bodies instead of snake bodies you can do what you want yeah just use the because that was the thing with like
29:32
the data sheet you could use the data sheet because they got the movement there and they got the attacks there you just give it a different vibe that does
29:38
something that you want to do I mean you could argue to play D and D you could do that but if you wanted arz and you
29:44
wanted a Dr Army but still play Warhammer you could do that I think um I
29:50
think one of the things I think probably AG to sigal did a good job off it was for the new the new player and I cuz
29:57
I've been on the rece an end this I've only ever played Warhammer fantasy two or three times one of the thing things I
30:04
always found as a bit of a barrier for me having already been a 40K player was
30:10
flying moving things around and um and I know a lot of historical players that's
30:17
their meat potatoes of how they play they move men around in flanks and I got that but you know when
30:23
um when they went into AG of Sigma and they went no everything's on a round base they move about and it's much more
30:29
Warhammer 40,000 I know they was some of not being in in flanks and in in blocks
30:37
with um things like um didn't woodell always just move around independently some of them
30:43
didn't so um there when I play tried playing in they go I have to wheel this
30:48
wi and everyone I thought oh I haven't already see cuz the thing is for me
30:53
having come from Real World military I would you know we that's not how we
30:59
you moved in a lot more of you know an independent way but with a loose formation and this thing of like doing
31:05
that and I was like No And then you know when I seen a Sigmar and it was like oh no one's ramped up no one's in Rose no
31:11
one's this you know and I remember um I had a brief allance with the idea of
31:17
building a Warhammer chaos Army when when it was still the original Fantasy
31:23
one trying to get them all n each out their elbow and each other's face and one thing all I thought God I'm not cut
31:30
off I'm not cut off for this at all and it was a it was a thing that never went anywhere i' bought one box of um chaos
31:37
Warriors and just trying to get them all to fit inside that little trainer went you know and I think that AJ Sigmar must
31:44
have it must have been good for brand new players into the Hobby and also the the 40 kers who were go oh then guys who
31:52
in gold look quite interesting or them locked right was thinking it's closer to what they were playing I think from my
31:58
point of view as a gamer as well when I used to do Rank and file for Warhammer a lot of the sculpters would
32:04
do their best to scul them so they fit these really tiny bases yeah you still struggle to rank some of the rock yeah
32:10
yeah um and they about like the model will be cobbling on one side or whatever like it's too wide it's arms is it why
32:16
isn't on a bigger base and there was like rules on like size of the base with age s doesn't matter really the size of the base yeah I mean it's kind of
32:22
changed a little bit but still that that fundamental is there but you doesn't you could go mad when you converion because
32:28
as long as they're close to each other it doesn't matter and it does feel like I said earlier like with natural like flank attacks it feels like sometimes
32:34
you have like a block of infantry moving forward you get into melee it feels like you're playing Total War yeah you're
32:40
starting to get that confusion like all those guys are kind of cut off in a small pocket there and they're out of sort of cency oh no and that's got my
32:46
champion in there my B is over it oh no so you could really like get into the my new sh I mean obviously if you're t play
32:51
is just Tak taken off because it's you know you're about getting the win at the end of the day but for me it's about
32:56
like no I don't want sergeant Rico today I love Sergeant Rico survived every game so far guys we got to push over there
33:02
get to Sergeant Rico it's like for me it's about the story um so that that's the thing I really liked like you didn't
33:07
have to worry about ranking up um you could use whatever bases you want so if you had square base you could still play on Square bases you can go to town with
33:14
like conversions and stuff um and I think it really helped free up um playing and enjoying it now a lot of
33:23
folks hated the sick Marines as they used to call them sick Marines yeah um I like the idea the concept of stormcast
33:29
and as at that time the stormcast that came out were the stormcast we saw and they were a bit clunky and I I do like
33:34
some color tests back in the day of like different ways of like com with color scheme and stuff we had a lot of fun doing that um just doing different
33:40
colors like gold armor silver armor slightly teal armor colored armor like lacer armor um and as the stormcasts
33:47
have developed I think the best stormcasts are the current ones which is the thunder strike they're a bit
33:53
slighter um they feel a bit more realistic because they got like Tower Shields Spears they got like like scale
33:59
male armor they look cooler there was the bit less marinees as well less
34:05
buling Cluny and before they came out there was the what they called The sacran Chamber which were ones that had
34:10
like the monish robes I really like those I painted a whole bunch of those like in the different vies like evocator
34:15
seur wasn't too sold on the castigat they go they had like big crossbows but looked like they chucked out big jars
34:21
and that was cool yeah yeah I remember see them kill like ghosts and stuff before that you had like the dra Kofi
34:27
and stuff which are like guys riding big sort of like salamander Dragon beasts and then there was the Vanguard and when
34:34
you read it it was like it's just kind of like the long-range desert Patrol really aren't you just like special special ops uh sort of stormcast but
34:43
yeah as as the Design's gone on it's like yeah I could see why people like it's just you're trying to bring Marines into like fun it's like yes because big
34:50
Power armored Warriors sell yeah yeah so that's why it's F good thing
34:57
about Space Marines in the in the current game they they they're very
35:03
rarely win in a tournament nowadays in in the competitive side of things are not doing particularly well in the
35:08
matter of it they're not right up there but they're still by far in the way the best thing why would you not do
35:14
something and also as well I think I think and people would argue
35:20
make May AR argue the points on this but I think in fantasy there was not one
35:27
race that you would identified as the the iconic look everybody was their cool
35:33
thing yeah well you go 40K and it's the Space Marine isn't it and then all and
35:38
then you once you paid past the Space Marine you see all the other cool stuff but it's that guy it's the thing and AJ
35:45
Sigmar yeah cleverly went with it needs that guy had the front of it and they figured out but the thing I think about
35:52
age Sigma and especially I've spotted it in the last two years and since they've got that that I can never remember the
35:58
name think is under Worlds the game that the game play on the board yeah I think which I think has been really
36:04
commendable I think the sculpts have really been allowed to just come off the leash and just make some I think my
36:10
brother stuff over there yeah the game itself I've played a little bit I find it fun but also it this definitely aimed
36:17
at like competitive play it was like trying to get the magic Market to to go down miniature gaming but the Miniatures
36:23
for that for them would be tokens but for me I I think it does two things one it it's
36:28
cuz they're color plastic they're push fit really easy to build but they are so amazingly sculpted they are really so
36:34
well designed that for me to me when I look at it I'm like just really cool
36:39
extra things to use in war cry and when they start doing like extra Like rules for those for war cry I'm soing this but
36:45
you could almost like just take the models and just do cool stuff with them because they are cool looking they are
36:50
and again it's like if you don't like card games there's something still there for you then they bring them out separately anyway for like people like
36:56
me who might not play the game I've always is I've always hoped that further down the line that might be to some
37:02
degree a little bit like what they do with um to do a kill team I would like
37:07
to see in Kill team them do units that will never progress past being the 10
37:14
men are in that b yeah what will be aliens that will go they are either just
37:21
out no mercenaries or they are um they
37:26
are mer Aries but only with these guys all they'll work with them them and them but like you know they'll work with all
37:32
elements of the alar or they all work with all Els this or they they you know they quite like chaos and all they like you know but um and I think the idea of
37:39
doing them with that is only have 10 men in a box yeah yeah and then they go on and but do some weird and wonderful
37:45
stuff cuz you you look in the most recent 40K rule book there's some fantastic alien races that yeah I've
37:50
never been seen you know is that one there's basically a a a walking piece of broccoli with a gun yeah go yeah like
37:57
you I'd like Squad them yeah yeah you know I mean even like underworlds kind of does that scratches issues so you had
38:02
like the the um beast grave set you like some beastmen you I think they're called the Keri kery which are like thores wood
38:11
elf Warriors yeah it's like it again it's one of those things where sculpt going let's try something that's
38:16
different see how well it does and maybe down the line we could turn that into a faction I think that's the cool thing is like do the witchs are cool quite a
38:24
popular um a lot of more time players out there like them well they that that's I think and and that was almost I
38:30
was going to round this bit up um I think before I will say that is that so
38:36
then because people out there want to know um collapsing the old world and
38:42
going to age of sigar a yes or a no a positive or A negative I think a yes but
38:48
I think we could have kept the old world as like a a sideline game which is why it's coming back as a and and I'm really
38:54
happy that for have taken it cuz for are really good at like specializing in certain things yeah well it's not just
39:01
that that it's like the person that's in charge of that is very passionate about that so whoever's doing like Horus heresy really cares about Forest heresy
39:07
Andy is really into neunder really cares about necam and that's his baby so you know whatever happens when necam is
39:13
going to be looked after because the passionate person is in charge of it so I don't even know I can't remember who's
39:18
in charge of old world but you know the the team in that are invested in everything they've been bought upon old
39:24
world and love old world so it's taken its time it could have been done sooner but to have foral who are now dealing in
39:31
a lot more plastic B yeah to get those armies back and to get that thing I just wish it had stayed as a as a game maybe
39:39
like mildly supported every now and again but some of the new kits that you would get like fire Slayers you could
39:46
easily use as troll Slayers or whatever but I mean I don't I'm not a business-minded guy I I leave that to
39:53
the smart people understand money and figures and finances and graphs but yeah for me it was even if he killed off for
39:59
a bit it could have come back a bit sooner but AG of Sigma I think it sounds like a fence sitting kind of thing I
40:05
think it was the right move yeah but it could have been done a bit different I think the only sad thing that went isn't it because it was so loved and so
40:13
revered as just a perfectly written game was more time wasn't it yeah more time oh more time yeah even now I don't
40:19
understand why that's not a game yeah cuz it was just had a really perfect rule set and had some nice mines for it
40:25
so there we go the answer is age of Sigmar but old old world for a bit
40:31
longer and Old World back a bit sooner yeah yeah I think so yeah Okay so we've put old world war hammer to bed C kind
40:41
we woke AIA Sigmar up from its Slumber you know what it's like it's only young it's they up far too Out video gaming
40:47
yeah he gets up at 12 yeah spend too long the Tik Tock AG that's the problem with it so we covered
40:54
them 140,000 yes two main bits of this for me um one is kadia yeah and the
41:03
other bit is the prim arus Marine yes so we go straight into the second one
41:08
really I think first what did you think to that when they went we're going to resize Marines uh good because they look
41:16
too comical I think I mean it was a design aesthetic we had based off like years and years of stuff and I don't
41:23
know if it's intentional or if it just happens with like Tech and scotin but you get and scale creep to the point
41:28
that Guardsmen were the same height as very ridiculous um so when primaris came out initially I just thought it was
41:34
going to be rebranding just that I think at that time when they were coming out we just brought out a couple of new Space Marine kits like uh the stern
41:41
guard and some other like upgrade bits and like um Death Watch just recently come out as well yeah although Death
41:48
Watch are slightly bigger the first born I hate that first born but that's the ter we yeah yeah um so when Prime R came
41:54
out I thought oh cool we're actually doing rescaling doing new tactic Marines are doing this and doing that and I was excited for it I still like them I'm not
42:02
a huge Marine collector but I love the design of all of them I there there has
42:08
been a few weird designs and I get you know you want to like push the bares out because now we've opened bellasaurus
42:14
Call's Vault we can go Bonkers and make all sorts of things basur craw the guy who's massively important but never
42:21
existed i' been burning this stuff I always thought that I I thought the the idea of doing the primaris Marine which
42:28
is interesting for me cuz that's when I came back in I came back in in E the the
42:33
primaris Marines were I came in late 8th so we'd not long bought the starter box for my son I'd agreed to play it with
42:40
him and then before we knew it ninth was on top of us but we come back in and these new Marines and I looked at them I
42:45
thought they are a real Improvement because they had been one of those things that always annoyed me was was the fact that I was playing a space
42:51
walls on them I could be in close combat with with somebody who's got cat a chance and going us a Space Marine here you know
42:58
and he looked at the physiques of them and um and I think you know it got to the point where you sort of looking you go
43:05
my Space Marine now needs to be the size of a Terminator my Terminator now needs to be the size of this you know it got
43:11
but um so I think for me I didn't quite understand the desire
43:18
of giving it so much backstory I personally would have just gone they've got new armor new armor Mak it bigger
43:25
yeah you know and this thing go no that there you know we're going to create this whole thing which looked to me like
43:30
it just to me on the story level just looked like they were going out of the way to make their own their lives more
43:37
difficult for themselves I think you know I'm deing that again it was the knock on effect of age of Sigma um and
43:42
killing the old world and I think the story was handled that there was a lot of learnings for that story so when we
43:48
did the for Cadia the um uh what were they called there was like a series of
43:53
books you had the fracture Bill town and then you had the rise of the Prime they had they had a title I can't remember off the top we head now but there was
43:59
the fall Aradia fracture Billtown and then the rise of the Primal um and it was following that kind of end times
44:06
stuff but the intention wasn't to blow anything up yeah it was to change some history um and move it on um which is
44:13
what I think was the Lan was we could have probably done that with old world maybe maybe not um because I think it's
44:19
better with having more choices and more Realms and stuff but that brave decision
44:25
to blow up the planet which will come to in a bit but with the Marines um it was kind of a bit of a fence sitting from my
44:32
felt a bit fence City kind of we want to put some new ones in but we don't to annoy all those people that have massive
44:38
Marine collections we want them to be able to use their Marine collections but we want to rescale the Marines so they
44:43
look more appropriate yeah but we have to find a way to jimm that in into the
44:48
story and I think they did the best they could to appease as many people as they possibly could some of us like the Die
44:56
Hard Marine f are just like no don't like it and then there'll be people like love it just just get rid of the old
45:01
ones I I got it was the idea of going um if it's new if it's new armor then the
45:08
problem being is you go well you know everyone gets it and then if you go well it's these new guys yeah and then but
45:14
then they I think in some levels the argument still stands and go well everyone would just you know would get them as well and and I think from again
45:21
and I often say this and I know it's stupid to keep referring real well to to 32 mm tall
45:27
plastic Salto but you know when I was in the Army new kit used to come in and then you would go and visit another
45:33
regiment or another regiment would come and see you and they'd be wearing something you didn't have yet yeah yeah and especially if you are in a logistics
45:40
element sometimes the Infantry would get all the stuff straight away because they needed it yeah and you know like 18
45:46
months down the line there'd be somebody's would come and join your regiment who' be like a Landrover M I
45:51
was still wearing boots that you'd long given up on or was wearing this and you know so I you know sometimes i al you go
45:57
well the iron hands are X gazillion miles away from Earth and it's going to take a while before Mar whatever arm
46:05
gets to them and you're going so I thought personally I would I personally would have just kept it as ARA yeah or
46:12
going oh well at the moment the blood angels don't think they like that new armor yet yeah but then we get into that debate of Marines the old armor the
46:18
better it is oh yeah so then you having to mix firstborn in with primar Marines because you have like if you if you do a
46:24
marine Army properly you would have like a selection of arm in the squad because venerated sort of
46:30
armor um so so there like for me it was like because I'm big neonic fan like
46:36
when like Austrian outfits changed it remov the helmet give the shack there's still regiments using the helmets four
46:41
or five years after yeah yeah um not every single one but there like like one or two guys were going I like the helmet
46:47
um but you'd still have that you still have like the first born armor but a different but would have to rescale it
46:54
would you just have like little tiny you know Captain tinitus with Captain I
46:59
don't know I can't think we name this gas Titus or whatever um so it it would make
47:07
it weird as a unit because you have all these different scales the um Death Watch was were
47:12
saying they had like I forget which Mark is nine or eight or something Mark eight um they were a bit taller than the first
47:19
you're a bit longer in the fire yeah so it it was kind of like that you either
47:24
really change the IP for this particular thing or just get rid of everything that
47:30
came before I just go these are Marines now this is Mark 6 or whatever yeah so
47:35
it was a m field and I do feel for all the writers and designers and everything but it it needed to have a new push and
47:43
I think if I if I if everyone went went back and changed it I think it' be a
47:49
worse situation I think this is the best to my knowledge of being behind the scenes that you could probably get
47:55
because you still get to play play your first born you still get to use rhinos and predators but then if you want to you can go down well might I still have
48:02
like several squads of firstborn and they're mounted in a Razer back and a Rino but i' got this squad of
48:07
intercessors that are mounted in the Gladius and i' got these ones in a repulser and they got see you see you in
48:13
your army you go I like these I like play them I've loved them for years
48:18
there they might get used once in a while for Co game aesthetic so I think
48:23
it'll be a natural progression anyway that people slowly but surely move away from well I think the just will just won't
48:28
support them any longer will they well whether they support not as a well not support them before the right ATT you know I wouldn't be surprise come 10th
48:36
edition when space Mar codex comes out which you know probably won't be book but within less than a year would
48:42
imagine it'll be on top of us now the first born will still be in there but first born Miniatures I think almost
48:49
like the last first ball minites we' probably seen now was probably the most recable of the heroes well I reckon the
48:55
heroes are just slightly B slightly shorter than primar they'll get resul to be a bit smaller if they like you know runs here and there like kill teams or
49:01
like Blackstone fortress games it'll just like we'll just make the scale a bit bigger because those old kids don't exist because that because that other
49:08
guy is pretty much primar size isn't he the um but is in the original is a firstborn is the uh that most recent
49:15
captain for the grey Knights oh yes yes I'm this no not that heuse the
49:21
Terminator guys yeah the guy who Crow stellen Crow Stell oh there he is that's the guy
49:27
I was thinking of the guy from the end time of oldest but yeah the um the black Templar oh the ax and it's like you
49:34
Primos or firstborn and he goes yes good
49:39
lad he I great V but it literally does open that question you go you know what
49:46
is he but um yeah so I think I think they will probably no
49:52
longer get new Miniatures outside of a character or a special edition Rel
49:57
like I say like Heroes if I was put my shoes the new Kad armor is coming out
50:02
right yeah I put my shoes in the players the space I'm not like I said I'm not a space be player but I want all the new
50:08
Kia models but they're taller than my current K models my current KD models
50:14
are all most of them converted as ventril Nobles I've used so many heads on them do I continue doing ventril
50:19
Nobles and have them in the Army and they all these different sizes or do I just do a new Army of ventril Nobles and
50:26
eventually just go hey Charlie to play with these guys I'm going to play with these nice new Shan um so I I I'm going to make the
50:33
call for myself now on on screen which is I'm just going to start a new Army with them yeah and I might do a
50:38
different color scheme I might do because I'm doing this Noble Ember thing at the moment where I'm just picking all the old yeah yeah States and stuff I
50:43
something to crack on with that um I might just go you know what I really like the Rin color scheme I did which is like really nice we all I think a lot of
50:51
the time when you especially when you go off piec like with my son's space Army
50:56
bu you can't help but start to have uh your own personal head Cannon yeah cuz
51:02
if you don't have your own person head Cannon Payton and becomes really really difficult you know and it and you know I
51:07
say Tuesday night I was pting that um uh infiltrator um is the infiltrators the
51:15
the Scout like I was painting one was a medic and I went let's give him one
51:20
white all that's a medy thing and a white helmet and then a paint all helmet on there and got new veterans white har
51:27
he now needs a w Stripes to be medic and it's a so you have to keep a you know head Cannon going don't you but I think
51:32
um I think the great thing is you can just in your head Cannon you go the vent
51:37
trillions are now like it's 75 150 years later and they are getting whittled the
51:44
way to almost ly and they're being supported by these guys and then eventually them guys will go and these
51:50
guys will you know new gears have arrived and there's just new that's just new regimen it's like the vent Trillian
51:56
118th and this is the eventually in 541st cuz that's how many rants are on
52:02
least um but yeah so I mean for me I'm I'm going to be in that con do I add them to it or just well afid I like this
52:08
with me with mine because I've got that Jean steel of cult on me and it's got a load of um it's got a load of cadens in
52:15
been made to look around and go oh I'd love to put some in G steel c head on the new cadan and then I'm like going
52:22
I'll you do that you go well maybe they're just the ones that got our fin Defense Force and these guys got there
52:28
and then they got infected and they did you know you so it's that thing cuz no one ever wants to
52:34
go I'm putting them in a box and I go to the charity shop or I'm putting them in the box I'm doing that or I'm selling the you know as we all do I'm putting
52:40
that in the Box it's going on eBay a year later it's still sick yeah you know and it's but no one ever wants to admit
52:45
that the it's a hard thing to admit and go I now have been overtaken by shiny
52:52
new shiny toy syndome yeah yeah yeah it's hard though when you've spent you Blood Sweat and Tears and painting a
52:57
loads of stuff you know and you go I mean off you go touching quickly
53:03
back on age of Sigma I mean touched my cities of Sigma Army for a long time I added stuff to it over time i' just never got to playing games but I've got
53:09
a vast variety of B bands and gangs I can use for w cry when I want to um and
53:16
one thing I've noticed with the new cadians because we got the kazak in set for team they're obviously from the same range the heads are about the same size
53:22
as existing Caden so my eventually Noble heads would fit on them that's cool um most heads humaniz head would fit on
53:29
them so they may have slightly gone up in height but the head shape is still
53:34
but they've done the nice thing with the mney which is I think I think uh the model range um cover Bell did would be
53:42
Infinity was taller but slender smaller hands smaller and you know and I think
53:48
they've started to get that with the KD yeah yeah somebody said on one of our comments said is that the breaches were
53:55
probably the last squat sort of shape of I guess so yeah and you know that taller SL more slender thing will sort of for
54:02
now and um can I just for a second stop and say look at Pat is is the old
54:07
woman's feet really cold you should have put them pajamas on your own F apparently she doesn't cut her nails
54:14
God we forgot he's still naked I know it's his own fault told him he went no
54:20
no I every week I'm naked I don't care if it's a bed with three old age penes I'm still getting he's regretting it now
54:28
so and the thing is the problem being is is I think eventually they'll be be going well I'll put all me first born on
54:33
eBay but the problem is so will everybody else yeah yeah yeah so um keep them yeah I think um so I think you're
54:39
right though I think you're going to notice the difference they're going to get taller people will just get more
54:44
interest yeah I mean it it I think that it was the best possible route to appease as many there's always be
54:50
someone that burns their army and films it on YouTube because they hate the decision but they're so few and far between
54:56
um but I think it if you picked any R option it would have been worse yeah so
55:03
trying to mingle in and yes you could argue like simp was really lazy right I don't think it was lazy right I think it was really clever on to try they could
55:10
yeah so so talking of clever right and then and going back to what we've just
55:15
been talking about do you think it was right to destroy a planet full of people and then still give them the new Army
55:20
yeah you do yeah oh that was very there was no no think about that at all yeah absolutely so um if you think about the
55:27
41st Millennium like the cadians they have so many regimens scattered Across the Universe so the if you ever read any
55:34
like G ghost novels or any kind of like Imperial Garden novels you never go home once you join a regiment and you're
55:40
sent up into the Stars you never going home no so you've got I would I would say cadens for sure I got a bug better
55:47
about them being cadens but that's that's another thing so Cadia huge Planet billions of people on it sending
55:53
billions of people out because it's a warlike state but also the defense against the ter the ter exploded because
55:59
weird stuff happened K has been destroyed because that's what Abad always wanted to do abad's done it because we had the IR ter campaign where
56:05
we didn't do it like stor of chaos because you know we don't want to destroy anything we destroyed it I always blew it up I was the thing I
56:11
always thought was ridiculous about KY was that close to the ey teror but had raised a marine unit yeah
56:18
yeah right on the Brinker where the bad guys are but we just didn't they so the Imperial fist
56:24
stronger I mean that was that took a beating and a half but um I think for me being through the end times watching
56:31
like my favorite cities get blown up and then go oh no no no no no no boom um
56:36
having a bit of that in 40K then set to president go nothing safe we're not
56:42
going to blow up the Galaxy yeah but we're now set of presidents that nothing's safe and to still have
56:48
billions of regiments of of Imperial guards I mean there's trillions of regiments are Imperial Guard but billions of cadians cadians or whatever
56:55
they're all going to be everywhere they also on the ships they're going to be making relationships because we all know if you read God's ghost you get males
57:01
and females in the regiment they they form a partnership they have children they have Hangers On which tend to be
57:07
nannies and cooks and you which very Napoleonic yes absolutely so they are yeah in fact they taking the Napoleonic
57:14
Vibe and those armies they they would have a train of similian two CLS their family so they're then breeding the next
57:19
set of Cadian yeah which will then get trained maybe the armor will get a bit battered or is my breast blade son take
57:25
it with you to war the way I've always looked at the cens is that is in my
57:31
mentality with regards to the way they look is that not every Regiment of guards can be flamboyant or have an a
57:39
really distinctive look all of their own like the way steel Legion have and then um death cor of Creek hav and which is
57:45
funny enough because they are they're both Germans but two different periods basically yeah yeah um but that you know
57:51
you can't like and all these other ones that now don't have sort of gone the way of gone the way the doo like the morans
57:57
and one but they can't all be flamboyant or unusual you're going to they must be
58:02
a stock standard Imperial Guard and in my brain they just wear kadan gear so that's that that that's my point is back
58:09
in the day you had Imperial Guard and the um it was the old like yeah Ro Trader set and they'll call the cover
58:16
art was the necrom and spiders they had great fatigues with black tiger stripes on black armor to me that was Imperial
58:21
Guard that was the regiments s Across the Universe Universe the Galaxy and that was the standard armor that was
58:27
sent out and then you painted it differently or you had different fatigues but then you had like your your peripheral stuff and you could argue
58:32
that every planet was a bit peripheral depending on what it is but so there was this argument the kadia the cadens had
58:39
armor CAD shock troops but it was like oh those breast plates and those LZ guns and those outfits go out everywhere but
58:45
they might be slightly different tones and colors or dyes I think the wisest thing would be to do Imperial Guard or
58:51
astr militar regiments um and then make your Canan shock tro thing a little bit
58:57
more bespoke like the old Caden shock troops cuz they had like slight different helmets Yeah Yeah you know bit like Flack arm and stuff that was a bit
59:03
different so kill team I think is a great field for that so you've got your death core cre yeah You' got your your
59:09
kakin which could have been like the the Cadian chop troops that could have been the designed aesthetic forting sh troops
59:14
then you could do morans for Kil te you could do Talon deser Raiders for Kil him you could do pretorians for Kil te tan
59:20
for Kil him so what you're getting is you're getting like your little army set that's plastic that's multi part that you can use for Kil him but also stick
59:26
in your army but then you have Imperial Guard yeah which is you could pay it what you want do what you want call yeah
59:31
sure yeah um I think picking a specific Planet because you would't go what I mean although the box packaging is
59:37
painted as alarin you could paint them whatever you want yeah it's not an Aline Army it's a Space Marine Army yeah and
59:43
that's I think the weird thing for me with astrom army should be Imperial astrom Army and then you get do was
59:50
Ultra Marines imperi yeah cuz they must be PL planets out there with no imagination oh yeah they just go oh no absolutely I mean well wear that helmet
59:56
wear them clothes off your pop there's PL oh you need a feather or have a big red stripe in your helmet yes be plenty
1:00:03
people just go just get down and off your there planets that literally their job that entire structure of that planet is to make combat fatigue yeah
1:00:09
especially if you look at the mod if you look at the Modern if you look at the the modern NATO wealth we're in is
1:00:16
pretty much now the Australians the Americans the Brits are almost wearing the same camouflage now yeah you know
1:00:23
they're all basically in this this multi- cam thing yeah he go and that's three different nations where virually
1:00:29
IND distinguishable by the Barry and the catb yeah yeah and he go you so the same is he just to just have loads of just
1:00:35
Imperial Guard that just look that way yeah um I hope and I may be naive when
1:00:41
he think that they've just had a reasonably big relase for pting SL Imperial Guard SL asouth milor but got I
1:00:50
hope in 10 even if it's just one box of bloody 10 minutes like you've done with death
1:00:55
cor cre I'd like to see in the 10th edition can you from the love of God sort the catcher hands out oh sort so
1:01:01
and the thing is I was convinced the catch hands were going to get love and the reason I was is because of anybody
1:01:08
recently of getting quaky and cool looking characters it's been then yeah
1:01:14
and they've been scaled well they've gone the they made the heavy weapons squads that didn't look ridiculous like the standard yeah squ as well and the
1:01:22
command Squad got more sensible and then they did the the um the female character
1:01:27
y yeah Ripper Jackson Ripper Jackson and then they did the new um they did the
1:01:33
the new K in D it looks like Dyan to do Arie now well
1:01:40
I desperately still want did you ever see the head for that though where it was the beard and the the beard and the moho yeah he's gone the head for
1:01:47
painting them as a as a white guy and it's got It's a most space head I've never I've ever the space but um yeah so
1:01:54
I think it's um I think I thought I'm really shocked when they didn't so I thought I hope come 10th
1:01:59
yeah the the the Imperial Guard get a second a lot of of love either they expand the death cor Creek yeah or they
1:02:07
go let's let's go sort the catch stands out they don't even need to sort all of the catch stands out don't really need to Source out the standard infantry
1:02:13
Squad yeah I mean there's my um Christmas list is to get like a box of Morin a box of tal and a box of because
1:02:19
they've done a box of itan rff riders right yeah yeah just going back to the old school like you've got like Imperial
1:02:25
G then you've got like these yeah these Sho I always think of it like the Roman army where they would go yeah yeah
1:02:31
absolutely we are the army of Rome SL Italy when you know but these guys who are really good
1:02:38
at archers but they're from the other side of the you know the other side of the world and I think um and I think
1:02:44
they should do you know so that idea of guard being a mixed bag on some level I quite like the I quite like the idea of
1:02:50
so yeah I think um so I think yeah I thought it was a bit weird kadia yeah go
1:02:56
and bang but then they really AR but I think what you're saying of the idea that they they are out there on the pringers I think makes perfect sense I
1:03:03
think the only other thing I would say to round up uh going back to the primaris briefly
1:03:09
is that I hope once we start making our way into 10th edition the primaris I
1:03:14
think have looked a little bit sterile when you consider that Space Marine units are so flamboy the unusual to each
1:03:20
other and I think it was only really the black Templar so far that I've had enough of it Rel where they've gotone we
1:03:26
now start making these guys look like walking Cathedrals cuz that's what black temples are all about they if they
1:03:32
haven't got something to hang it off their belt then they're not a happy they're not a happy Marine they love all of this stuff and I think I hope when
1:03:38
they go to 10th Space Wolves or blood angels I I'd like I know they've already got accessory bruise but I want to see
1:03:46
them primar being released looking more like the the chapter they're meant to be
1:03:52
and I think cuz I think at the moment it's still a little bit like going oh will you buy this accessories you can get to change like three heads and put
1:03:58
this you go I want to see Fair the releases and I think it will happen yeah I think it it's happened with black Templer I think I think it will happen
1:04:05
with the others side they'll get more their chapter I think going touching like crossing the streams a bit as well like the first conversation is with like
1:04:13
age of Sigma being the thing it is yeah have so many conversion opportunities from some of the kits on there that can transfer to 40K right yeah um I mean I
1:04:20
use like secretors as Crusaders for my Imperial Army so just giving them like Vanguard heads and stuff um scar
1:04:27
Vanguard H so there's definitely be lots of beardy guys yeah if you want to do Space Wolves they probably like going to
1:04:32
be AG of Sigma bait so even if there isn't a kid specific out there right now there's definitely stuff well I used to do the D heads that were from the uh the
1:04:40
guys used to wear the wolf em from old oh yeah the B headb war hammer fantasy
1:04:45
white wolves white yeah they made it into Space Wolves so then I think um I
1:04:50
think we set some yeah set some fact G where J will now be frantically writing
1:04:56
all of this down now I don't think they will be they already know it they probably sick of you going yeah
1:05:04
just just watch painting phase they'll answer it for yeah you know hopefully because there's people who have been asking in the comments what we thought
1:05:10
about Prim Maris and I mean the old world there's lots of thoughts that I would never go into because I don't want
1:05:16
to like well get on the bad side of work because I love work but there are things that people shouldn't know that yeah
1:05:22
it's it is workshop's right to to to like keep some stuff to itself but a lot of the things that I've talked all the
1:05:28
things I've talked about is kind of common knowledge anyway it's just yeah change the thing some people agreed with it some people didn't agree with it so
1:05:34
yes to blowing up could have been longer yes to AG of Sigma yes to destroying
1:05:41
kadia K Kia does stand just spatial debris now so then
1:05:49
before we go should we remind people of how they can get in touch with us we're available you can fight us on in
1:05:55
Instagram Instagram Twitter you can find me on Twitter and all the rest of us on Twitter you f Twitter Tik Tok uh we have
1:06:02
patreon patreon is a good way to support us as well because and as well we saying
1:06:07
as well patreon there is now only six onetoone session monthly sessions with you left doesn't he I believe so yeah
1:06:13
only six you can I'm six I'm joking you can get it you can get in
1:06:19
Touching of your uh send some just reviews and uh are few people actually
1:06:25
go that but not send us any pictures I'm like say go I want I want to help no one
1:06:30
send anything yet and um affiliate links affiliate are yeah so um go on then so go on then go on pronounce that you one
1:06:37
oh God I got a load of life festic that I didn't SWAT it before and I think he's like Tash and G which is what was it it
1:06:43
workout at money pocket money stealer pocket money stealer yeah what's name pocket money can rely on the Germans to
1:06:49
be on the nose says that and there's obviously element games El games would be
1:06:55
wonderful and if you're still watching at this point right now don't forget to hit the like And subscribe that would be we like it when you do that and it just
1:07:01
looks great for us because we've got R small OS on we so I've got a huge ego
1:07:06
all right that's why my hair's gone my hair my ego soaked away my hair uh you
1:07:11
can see my ego is really small cuz not me anyway thank you for listening to all
1:07:18
of that waffle you asked the question so you yeah yeah and also we're still not wearing pants today or trousers just
1:07:24
look look look at the look look at the face on that look on the face that old woman now that Pat kicked that quilt off
1:07:29
I don't want that's not a face good Lord on that note bye bye-bye