Up next in 10
Bob Naismith returns and brings with him some green stuff Space Marines sculpts, never pressed, never seen by anyone until now!
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Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:00
hi I'm peachy hi I'm Jeff and today we are joined by our first returning guest
0:05
box next week yes I'm back as they say return yes thanks for coming back on any
0:11
problem we obviously didn't put you off for the first time so that's not good fun the best gifts were good
0:17
uh yeah we I mean your interview went down really well lots of people just loved listening to you talking about
0:23
yeah it was nice um so yeah we wanted you back on you brought some stuff we've
0:29
got loads of things to talk about yes cool uh how have you been since fine yeah like like many many people uh on
0:36
this island there's this bug going around so that robbed me of my voice and it it's really frustrating when you when
0:44
your voice goes because you know there's a conversation you want to contribute and you know you just can't and you're
0:49
yeah the frustration is you know it builds up thankfully it came back about a month ago so it's horrible wait for
0:56
our viewers at home as well Pat is currently ill and he's left us in charge terrifying thoughts the children are in
1:03
control I think I think my um my customers in my barber shop are waiting for me to get this prepared because I
1:08
have to listen to me but yeah apart from that everyone else
1:14
is is is is fine I thoroughly enjoy myself still making wee men yes um
1:20
weirdly I was talking to the Andrews because I went to play around his house every time I went to Dave Andrews to play it's been a it's been a pleasure
1:26
going there the first time I went I was really ill after uh and the last time it was leaving Dave seems to be a nightmare
1:32
just Journey wise because the M1 was close or the section I need to get I took ages oh is it his Mansfield ways
1:38
like a Leslie Veil it's very nice very pleasant um but yeah I was talking to him after
1:44
we had you on the show and he's just like I looked at Bob's website he's done a lot of stuff yeah well I just sort of you know well
1:51
why not yeah you know if you can you know I mean uh yeah I would sit all day
1:57
making making stuff if I could you know but there's other things yeah
2:02
food to eat yes you know I have to have sleep
2:08
but no it's it's wonderful and it's just nice finding finding new things finding
2:13
like Minds you know yeah can't complete so last time we're on the show you
2:19
mentioned about three spacemans now Pat has taken some photos they'll be inserted yes as it goes on uh and I was
2:27
looking at them and obviously we'll talk a bit more about your approach Mr flat but you made a very very valid point
2:33
they're tiny yeah yeah I mean if things are scale that they were today this is
2:55
[Laughter] yeah these were made
3:00
these must date back to the 80s
3:06
oh my goodness his little brother it's bringing it's bring your child to work okay
3:12
that's crazy isn't it yeah that is quite a difference in scale it is but you know
3:19
the thing is that that part of what what gaming is about is the wow factor you know the kind of oh yeah
3:26
oh I've never seen that before yeah so the idea that these figures have got a little bit bigger a little bit more
3:32
dramatic over the last you know 20 30 years it's not surprising yeah it's good
3:38
for your eyesight when you're painting you don't have to yes yeah yeah in fact with this whole digital kick that's going on if of lucky enough there are
3:45
people who want to paint for me um some of them say can you can you scale
3:51
it up so I'll do a print yeah that's maybe 45 mil right okay just so that
3:57
it's it's just easier yeah to print you know yeah especially yeah I mean that
4:03
kind of from my point of view that if I was to do that for you that it feels a bit of a sort of a false economy doesn't
4:09
it because well yeah I know I know but then again because at the end of the day for these things it's like just it's the
4:15
image yeah yeah you know and I mean this clay I don't know what's what size would that normally is that must be 30. I
4:22
think it's like there's getting close it used to be like 28 mil then it went up to like 32 yeah and I think that must be
4:28
getting more like it must be like 35 30 seconds yeah it's getting to the size of like the um Marvel and the new Star Wars
4:35
game which is Crisis protocol Shadow point they're like 40 mil so right so similar scales and that's maybe because
4:41
that's what worship have done sort of like yeah pushed the scale up I'm fine you know that's good for me yeah well
4:48
it's funny you know I um a few weeks ago I've been um slowly I was giving it to I was asked to paint it
4:53
ages they're going to slowly work on my way through at um uh the the only real world thing I've ever painted which is a
4:59
fox armored car oh yes yeah yeah and I'm slowly working my way through this fox and um and it came with a driver and I
5:06
know you could have the Hat closed and I thought no it's a bit more character you know what I'm so regretting it
5:13
because it's made out of resin that you can see through virtually and you're like and Nothing fits on it and then all
5:21
of the things like baskets and everything that come with it are all folded brass Edge stuff oh it's just way
5:27
out way outside my league when I'm just going yeah plastic glue you know yeah yeah and um and I've just I only go back
5:35
to it every now and again but I painted the um the driver for it and I painted the drive in the face came out well and
5:41
the eyes came out really well and I was really pleased or nothing I've done a really good job of that and
5:46
I thought I couldn't quite figure out why it had gone so well and then I picked it up next to a space so he's about his his torso is like nearly twice
5:55
as well it's bigger than a Space Marine from top to bottom I was like ah I haven't got better it's just got bigger
6:02
yeah yeah this doesn't it you know I mean you would have to be painting with like a tiny little brush to get anything
6:09
over it so sorry no no I was just literally just looking at that and thinking that so this is digital Done
6:15
Right hi and that's on a computer so you can zoom in yes where this is done by eye by yes yes hi
6:23
um it's tiny yes so the detail involved and you know people could argue I've got the details a lot better these days but
6:28
yeah because it's computers yeah yeah yeah yeah you haven't to do that by eye and it's about half the size yeah that's
6:33
an incredible thing really went out yeah and I mean my eyes are short now so when I when I do find detail work I've got
6:41
all sorts of things to zoom in um but when I made these I didn't have any problem with my eyes at all you know
6:48
so you know but like I say that was 30 years ago so yeah I could if I had to do
6:53
that again I would I would need to use yeah magnifiers I don't think I could do that in my 30s
7:00
do you think as well though do you think the the one of the things with um with figures then compared to figures now do
7:07
you think not only the fact that the figure is getting bigger but the fact that uh and I mean it in the nicest possible
7:13
way I think the standard of painting nowadays is much much greater than it was wasn't it you know yeah you know a
7:18
friend of mine he can paint to a reasonable standard and he said he went to the first other games day he went to
7:24
the first ever golden demon and he still has the t-shirts he's never wore it he went and he said um and I think it was
7:30
only like a late late teens when he went but he sent he said to those people painting now for you know the captain of
7:37
their Space Marine Army that is good he said he said if he went back to the beginning there's a golden team and he said you could have been putting them in
7:44
competitions yes and I think size I think the size is obviously back then when things were that small trying to
7:50
achieve doing the wrongs just a lot of there's always been exceptional painters but Sharon achieved that level then must
7:56
have been so much harder so I was having a chat with the Andrews about that and there is an element of escalation so
8:02
when I joined the army painting team like the Army painting standard was probably better than the like heavy metal standard like 10 15 years prior to
8:09
that whereas the every metal stand is like far higher um and then Dave made a really good observation there's this trend at the
8:16
moment which is like paint Space Marines and stuff in classic color schemes so paint them like they were from like the 80s yeah yes and Dave's like that's all
8:22
well and good but those paints never existed if you painted the best way to do a classic paint job is get a modern
8:28
day marine and paint it with only the materials you would have had in those days all right okay so enamels and
8:35
gouache and yes poster paints and stuff like that and then how much people how much people must have been sitting there
8:40
having to yeah having to create their own ping well this is what I do made a really good painting sorry John Blanton
8:47
he was saying that John Blanche gets slated a bit like his paint is a bit messy but then it was like really of its
8:53
time because it's like you know a high-end stuff because he was doing all sorts of Mega mad effects using enamels
8:59
where everyone was just slapping baby it was pretty with base coating stuff and stuff like that so that's yeah it's
9:05
interesting you'd say that you know painting's coming but I think it's the text kind of help with that as well oh
9:10
yeah yeah absolutely great and I think yeah I think that's always I think yeah it's a a really fair point is that
9:17
nowadays if you look at I'd love to go back and look at you know from the time of golden demon first one and look how
9:24
many paints are in the The Citadel yeah how many painters yeah yeah just primary colors yeah to be
9:30
able to mix them all yourself together yeah I mean John was great because he
9:36
um he wasn't scared to use all sorts of different media so he would bring inks
9:43
and he would be using inks oh yeah yeah on on his models and and the lustrous quality that you got from layering up
9:50
you know I don't know 10 layers of Ink on the model is just stunning and we
9:56
were just like because we've been painting gouache and enamels yeah and
10:01
all that sort of stuff which was dead flat yeah yeah you know and then the inks came along and that that really
10:07
brought things to life yeah you know and made them great for for photography
10:12
because obviously a lot of the studio stuff that was what it was for was to generate
10:18
an image you know and and John's stuff was brilliant for that you know one of my Fondest Memories of uh John Blanche
10:24
actually was he came over to to my desk and was like oh do you have a pot of white paint and it was like School White
10:31
would have been the paint at the time because obviously rebranded it and I have a habit of like mixing in the pot I
10:37
know people are going to sleep but I can already see this when he comments already
10:44
we wouldn't blame you if you left Bob I know it used to like trigger my dad and we used to hobby painters like you've
10:50
got red in the white again and I felt because I still did it workshop and uh it comes alongside I've
10:57
only got this but I like to mix it that's fine that's exactly how I do it
11:08
and he was the other one who taught me that whole thing about bridging your hands when you're painting yeah
11:13
objective okay you know so that you know you would you would give it Bridge yeah yeah yeah
11:20
everything was locked and yeah that stability yeah and then you were just mean tiny tiny little movements and and
11:26
that was that was great yeah you know because beforehand you were kind of just coming in like that not not so good we're
11:34
talking before we went live about because I donated my realm of chaos to Bob he's done stuff in it yeah lots of
11:42
his Miniatures I literally looking at it the other night and going yeah I wonder if Bob's doing this and he credited at the front yeah yeah quite a few folks
11:48
are but you're saying about like the milliput you'd use like your old yeah in the studio we would all get copies of
11:55
these yeah copies of the first 40K book which I really regret because there was
12:00
a there was an insert on the front page you know this it was like a school prize this book has been presented too
12:08
and it was signed by Brian oh hello and all that and then I trashed it because I
12:14
used it to make a millipot I don't know if you can see in this in this in this camera bot the model is mostly
12:22
made of green stuff but the gun is made out of white millipop which was an epoxy two-part epoxy potty and what we would
12:29
do is I'd roll it up like you would with green stuff and then I would roll it out onto the nearest book which would be
12:36
something like this with a bit of grease on it and and some things to control the
12:41
thickness and then the the sheet would then go hard and we could then lift off
12:47
and start cutting up and filing it problem was eventually it would stick to
12:53
the yeah the printed cover and they just tear off is it because of the plastic coating is
12:59
that awesome yeah that's right that was what made it a good good release yeah you know interesting you know but yeah
13:05
and it was nice and flat and solid because it was so thick you know yeah yeah yeah they are quite heavy I mean
13:10
you could probably kill them yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but uh yeah so that's why I don't have any of these
13:15
anymore look at Memory Lane look at look at it so they are there's some questionable out in there and some amazing art well
13:22
that's the same question I mean like the subject matter I'm like yeah I don't think it's really PC no no
13:28
not at all not certainly the slash side of it that's for sure so you've got loads of props with you um I love these
13:34
by the way these marines they're so yeah just seeing them with a little uh Slaughter yeah the little slow
13:39
and a little dinner for your backpack oh sweet yeah you know it's all it's all
13:45
there but uh yeah these were never pressed um I think at that point I think that
13:52
was Lee 80s and at that point I wasn't really sculpting too much because it was
13:57
too busy help and run Plastics yeah and all that sort of thing so I didn't have much
14:02
sculpting time um those were some of the some of the last figures I made I think before I
14:08
left yeah Workshop um which was in 1990. wow yeah people have been born and
14:17
yeah had babies yeah their babies are now playing you know I mean that's one of the weird
14:24
things now about because I don't know about you guys but you have an internal
14:29
mental age don't you yeah yeah oh yeah you just lock yourself down yeah I'm probably about I'm about 22. so yeah getting the money
14:37
like late late teens when people come up and say I remember you know I was just
14:43
little and I wasn't born I don't understand that yeah yeah it's frightening I'm waiting for someone to
14:49
come in with a five-year-old child and go when I was your age Jeff was cutting my hair
14:54
it's gonna be it's getting dangerous yeah it's getting dangerous you just
15:00
have to go with it really had a guy cut a guy's hair the other week and he had a beard the size of mine he says
15:05
um he said you did my haircut for when I was joining Secondary School you looked like me with his master bed and I
15:11
thought oh God yeah there was people tell me now here here I have cut yes
15:17
there's people at office that had been born when I started working there oh in fact we were working I was like how old
15:22
are you like oh I'm like you know 18 I was like oh my God I was working here two years before you
15:28
did before you arrived but the thing is that you know you're looking at like you said the people in in the in like heavy
15:35
metal and the painters the young guys they're just so talented oh yeah yeah you know same with so much talent and
15:41
you just get better or worse I suppose if you yeah yeah
15:47
so we you know it's kind of like we're a part of the story yeah The Story Goes On yeah stewards of our time yes is a way
15:55
to look at it you know yeah just don't don't ruin it guys don't ruin it was that John Civic I'm just looking at this
16:01
again is that John Civic I'm not sure just say usually in the the book yeah back in the day when they'd uh put like
16:07
who did the front coverage yeah there's loads of Ian Miller in there I
16:14
recently did some stuff magical stuff just the amount of art styles that you get I mean you kind of still get it now
16:19
with other books because a lot of different artists but um that very much reminds me of like old Workshop because like the in Miller
16:27
is very much of my era but I guess like when uh like kids that were quite Young
16:34
when I was working in retail it'll be like Paul Denton and Alex Boyd and yeah and whatever and Mark Gibbons and stuff
16:41
with the covers for like Realm of chaos you can still see the remnants of the art style that was coming off all of the
16:46
original d d books can't yeah still very much yeah yeah absolutely it's got that kind of like a request yeah yeah as well
16:53
yeah and John uh Civic was um what he really loved painting was dinosaurs oh
17:01
really but super detailed yeah yeah just like these these little illustrations
17:06
um and super accurate he went and worked with a natural history museum uh I did a whole series of books oh that's really
17:13
cool you know so if you're down there yeah you look up the dinosaur books and you see the familiar finish that's
17:20
because it's John Civic you know interesting and um yeah I mean I did some bits and Bobs and five recently I
17:27
am uh let I sent one my do you remember the golden demon the original one that was
17:34
the paint box yes oh yeah yeah yeah yeah I I discovered that in my attic um about a year ago I thought oh yes
17:41
because I thought it was a print yeah I looked at the back and I thought oh no it's the original I know so I brought it
17:47
downstairs from the attic and then I put it online and it's now in the hands of a
17:54
chap in Singapore oh wow who wants to do a
17:59
museum okay and not in Singapore strangely it's going to be in Edinburgh
18:04
all right I'm sure come force it yeah yeah so that that'll be quite interesting I
18:11
think he's hoping to start doing a miniature Museum there um but that'll be interesting to see
18:16
what other yeah other pieces come come together you know because like you say
18:21
there's there's a lot of these beautiful pieces of artwork out go there you know so I think uh we'll segue on to you for
18:31
a bit now if that's okay all right that's fine um so last time we obviously talked about stuff that you've your
18:36
journey as as Bob Nate Smith from Workshop Uptown we've got a lot of questions which I'll get to in a bit from the from our lovely patrons thank
18:41
you for sending those in um so obviously we've got John from we put minions contact there's the yes some
18:48
of your stuff but I obviously have your own website yeah I just wanted to like I referred to
18:56
my website before um I just like to populate people's
19:02
science fiction world with lots of and lots of background fluff you know the
19:08
equivalent of the extras who would be walking across the back of Shop while the hero's doing this thing
19:14
um so there's loads of those kind of um models um and also
19:21
teams of guys in space suits teams of guys and Tech suits teams of guys that
19:26
look like they've escaped from the Nostromo yeah you know they're just it's again it comes back to this idea of
19:33
picking up on little threads from existing movies existing stories
19:38
existing cartoons and and because that's what's in everybody else's head well the
19:43
thing is is the background people are sometimes some of the ones that are the interesting ones aren't they because you think the guys in the foreground you're
19:50
gonna find out who they are where they're from what they're about what what the what their hopes and dreams and
19:55
what they want to go towards but the guy in the background walking by you never know who he is and you know when the
20:01
idea going yeah could he be the next hero you know yeah if things had gone a different way could it have been him
20:07
well look wasn't it like I can't remember if it was last time we were talking to to you but we refer to the
20:12
Star Wars Cloud City the guy carrying the little uh yeah the guy the the guy in Cloud City when when the Empire when
20:19
Lando tells everyone to evacuate because the Empire is going to take over there's a guy running away in the background who's carrying what was a 1980s ice
20:27
cream maker all right and and now a conventions people turn up in Orange boiler suits and carrying an ice cream
20:34
maker and then the great thing with Star Wars is that they in the the TV shows now the ice cream maker has made to
20:41
return and it's just a lockable container yeah yeah yeah you know yeah you know where the steel that makes best
20:47
car steel which they make star was the Mandalorian armor is made out of in one scene it's all being held in an ice
20:53
cream maker and I love the fact that you know but I like the idea that yeah that guy you know if that no one has ever
21:00
picked up on that guy is being who's the guy with the ice cream maker yeah no one has probably ever thought let's put the
21:05
ice cream maker back in yeah so the fans feed the yeah yeah and I love that I loved it because the some of the most
21:11
interesting aliens to look at in Star Wars you never even know what race they are or the other race and that's about
21:17
it and you don't know anything else about them and I think yeah and it's about layers isn't it you know because like you say you've got the main
21:23
protagonists who you're interested in you know but but you know any film now what the soul
21:30
has got some some backstory going on and there's other characters around I mean
21:36
I'm doing some stuff at the moment for my woman website which is that idea of like the unlikely hero yeah you know the
21:42
ordinary guy the insurance salesman who suddenly is thrown into the into the
21:48
free or the kid or the old lady or you know so I'm working through some of those ideas and I quite like that idea
21:55
yeah you know so the way my website is full of files they're only files and
22:00
that's where John comes out yeah because John will be able to print them at we print managers
22:06
um for for anybody I think yeah yeah quite happy to ship yeah the cool thing um I really like about John's website is
22:13
he it's the the quality of the prints are really high aren't they so yeah they've got good printers so one of the
22:19
things as a hobbyist that I want to paint stuff when I look at some sites I'm like I really want those Star Wars models but I don't have a 3D
22:25
and luckily folks like John that will have like a website that goes yeah we
22:31
have them on our catalogs we can print them out Ebay does that sometimes you get like official people that can print
22:38
these patreon only stls and stuff like that so so that's always a bonus but yeah if you have a 3D printer then you
22:44
you know yeah socks off yeah my website is is just I don't know I think I tried
22:49
to calculate in this probably more than a thousand figures wow in
22:56
India need to troll through all that yeah hundreds of them you know for which I apologize of course but in the website
23:04
you know I'm a sculptor I'm not a website designer you know so I do my best to make it right I I'm working on
23:10
all the time to make it right so if anybody out there knows more about that and wants to come and help me please let
23:17
me know yeah but I'm sure they will um yeah I just I think it's great yeah
23:22
and it's so much cleaner then you know in those days when we were making wee
23:28
things like this um the carpet was full of little crowns of green stuff that you know would drive
23:36
my wife up the wall um dive me out the wall as well actually to be honest and it got everywhere and
23:42
and one of the things that impresses me now when you see new green stuff sculpts
23:48
and they're still arcs stuff skulls being done how clean they are yeah you know and there's obviously a whole
23:55
discipline which I never really got um about about keeping your desk clean
24:01
you know partly because when you're filing um a white millipot like this to
24:07
make a gun you're creating a dust yeah and the dust infests your table and then
24:13
gets into the green stuff and then you find you've got you know it's like it's kind of like dandruff yeah I suppose
24:19
yeah yeah yeah Perry's having piles of like green stuff bottles that are just like how do you
24:24
know what's going on but I guess they did yeah yeah so I guess anyone that's watching that is like maybe they're not
24:30
doing digital or they are um and they they want to get into school but they want to start the website like where did that start for you because
24:36
obviously you you you decided you're gonna start making lots of stuff and then one day did you just go you know
24:42
make a website no no no what happened was I am not long after I left workshop
24:47
and I was freelancing I was still doing just traditional sculpt and then one of my customers
24:54
um Ross Dunaway who is an american guy runs a company called Old Glory oh yeah
25:01
and so they make all sorts of mainly historical things and he said he'd been
25:07
to a convention in the states and he'd been approached by the same people who
25:13
were supplying this new UK company called Games Workshop with
25:19
um digital sculpting stuff and was that interested yeah and I said well okay and and so
25:27
they came to my little grubby little cottage outside Nottingham
25:32
um and they were all suits it was like something about the Matrix they're a
25:39
very cool and the girls were all very pretty and they had this demo set up
25:44
um the thing was then the the price of one
25:50
station of the software and Hardware combined was the price of a small car uh
25:56
okay so it was quite a lot yeah so excuse me yeah right so we um I said that's great thanks very much but
26:03
is there a cheaper way to do that so they they kind of got rid of various bits and Bobs and
26:10
essentially I got it down to I think it was about 5 000 pounds um so I got my first set of digital
26:17
software okay then um and then I also bought
26:22
um uh my first copy of zedbrush yeah which was about version
26:30
1.01 or something and it only cost me about 80 pounds or something oh wow and of
26:36
course the the great thing about Pixel Logic was that they kept upgrading yeah yeah
26:42
and upgrading and upgrading so I just followed all the way through until recently you know where I've I've got
26:48
like pretty much the latest version yeah and it's still the 80 quid I suppose yeah yeah it's been 25 years ago which
26:55
is fantastic thanks very much Pixel Logic I couldn't forget getting you know getting your money's worth yeah yeah
27:01
yeah but of course what's happened now is that they've moved they sold out and they moved the model to Maxon who are
27:08
people who do that thing a bit like Microsoft now where you have to subscribe uh okay yeah yeah you have to
27:14
buy it every year um so I I opted out of that yeah but
27:20
yeah so those are my two main platforms I use blender as well which is free yeah
27:25
and very good um consider it's free it's a steep learning curve that's the only thing I'd say
27:31
about them it's kind of like going into three different cars where the steering wheel is maybe on the
27:37
roof and the other steering wheel is behind you and all the buttons are in
27:43
different places and each program yeah is different um and they all essentially
27:49
do very similar things but they've all every every one of them's got a trick that is greater yeah you know so what
27:55
you can do is you can you can blend the files you know and take a file from one and make it into you know like the the
28:02
free form skull which is the the one where the beautiful people came to my Cottage um they well they were drinking Martini
28:09
pretty much
28:16
it's a solid modeling program which means that um with a lot of other
28:23
programs like like freeform like sorry like zebrush you're you're sculpting
28:28
with a surface yeah which which is fine and you can do all sorts of tricks with
28:33
that but once you cut into it um it's a void it's just the space and
28:38
and it has no reality whereas the freeform stuff always has a reality inside this inside the computer so you
28:46
can cut it in half and it's instantly just two separate pieces and that's a wonderful wonderful thing so you're just
28:53
mixing the the qualities of the different programs and that's great I'm
28:59
constantly learning constantly seeing new things and newbie tricks that people
29:04
are doing um and it's it it it can be
29:11
you can be invited to go down a road which you don't really need to you know um you can make you could make the hairs
29:20
on on a face individual hairs that are programmed to do that wow and you can style it you know do all sorts of
29:28
amazing things but primarily that's for creating an image yeah for like digital
29:34
sort of like computer game and stuff yeah yeah and this stuff looks just so beautiful but it's just not real we
29:42
can't yeah we can't make it you know you know if I say in a fail like that to John
29:47
come down here and just slap me about the face what are you doing what are you doing you stop that unless you print it
29:54
out really large like yeah yeah yeah but you do see things like that on
30:00
Facebook yeah well no absolutely I mean there's a guy at office who did like a towel fire warrior and he because that
30:06
was so good he entered it into golden demon super he made his own thing printed it out and painted it it was really nice I think it was open
30:12
competition he did um but I just I wish I could one I I can
30:17
draw and I can paint yeah I can't sculpt yes I've never tried it um green stuff like Berets which would
30:23
like ketchup important on her head yeah that's the best way to describe foreign
30:44
people build their own printers now yes yeah yeah absolutely you know I love to get older one for this for the channel
30:50
you know that um that that's how far away have you seen it in the flesh no I
30:56
never saw it in the flesh anything to know how big it actually what would you say it was one of the third thirds of the size if we if we imagine towels have
31:03
a human sized head I don't know why you put a poster because he's been doing a orc uh Thomas
31:09
um this guy called Tommy Hughes he's a sculpture in specialist games Studio I think he might move to Miniatures now actually think about as well Steve's my
31:15
buddy Steve's mate um and if I'm sure he did a post on Instagram and he's doing this all and I'm sure the bus is like quite quite a
31:22
large yeah size thing but I could just be my my brain because that's how doing that it was very very good yeah oh
31:29
someone's gonna ask you is like you know when you you are doing your digital sculpting obviously you do humans but you also do vehicles do you have like
31:36
different strategies when you're yes coaching oh yeah yeah I mean technically because you you know that if you're
31:42
going to make a vehicle it's for printing so you've got to think of it as a kit or less from the from the from the
31:48
start um so you you like if it's a spaceship or a vehicle you I think of it as a
31:55
shell first of all yeah you know and so I create the shell then I cut the shell
32:00
so that I noticed it works as a as an object yeah and then go into the
32:06
detailing and and adding all the stuff like that so that's my that's my technique and again the solid modeling
32:13
program is great for that because it's you can do lots of what they call Boolean operations
32:19
which is uh it's a mathematical truth isn't it a plus b I can't remember but
32:25
essentially what it is is you can take a one shape and insert it into another shape and extract it yeah so you can you
32:34
can then make the the you make a hollow spaceship hole you can then cut the
32:40
spaceship into two you can do all sorts of things with these Boolean Opera Boolean operating operations and that's
32:47
the core of of making these things and then if you then transport the file from
32:53
the solid modeling into something like zbrush and start using the the tools and
32:59
zbrush too um add textures and detail details I'd
33:05
pipe work and all that kind of thing you that's what their brush is great for yeah you know and then you can then dump
33:11
it back into the solar modeling thing clean it up make sure it's still uh yeah a viable yeah yeah
33:18
um and then then export that and then after the printer it goes yeah you know so it's it's good then the only other
33:25
thing then is making sure that you don't make something that's too huge because you can cluster so much detail onto
33:31
these things yeah that most printers will just fall over if you if you start
33:36
to sell that fail so you have to go through all sorts of reduction processes that will that will make the file viable
33:45
um which is just it's just knitting it's house it's housework you know yeah but it's got to be done yeah you know
33:50
something I remember what the sculptures used to have like these processes I can't remember all of them and they did like uh a set of drawings with a couple
33:58
of the sculptors did with like where they called it the line of draw they're like oh yeah it's like the line of
34:04
drawers yeah um what what is that line of draw is if you're making a hardened steel
34:11
tool an injection molded tool like watch what will be used yeah to make Space Marines um the tool Works usually in just a
34:19
single Direction yeah okay yeah so it's moving that's actually your line of draw yeah okay so essentially what it is is
34:26
that if you inject soft plastic into a void inside your
34:31
two blocks of Steel and then you open them up if there is any undercut yeah a
34:38
little bit of a little break off yes yeah then the steel being steel will just carry on its own sweet way and it's
34:44
the plastic model that will just be yeah shredded yeah so line of draw is a way
34:49
of describing that that Vector okay and you have to adhere to that because
34:56
essentially engineering is as only it either works or it does
35:02
not work yeah and for a line of draw you've got to make sure that the the
35:07
models are are Sleek yeah and and the the split line
35:16
that you've established which is where the line of draw ends around the side of
35:21
the model um you've got to make sure that that is viable and it is
35:28
um doesn't demand too much of this tool Yeah because sometimes if you've got a a
35:35
model where oh I don't know if the line of draw comes around here and that's the split line it comes
35:41
around here and then suddenly you've got a piece of armor where the spliter has
35:46
to jump okay then it's too much yeah you know so it's it's it is it's where the
35:53
creativity of the design and the transposing that into an engineering
35:59
solution you know it's funny I was I went to um what was it called Hammer Warhammer
36:05
Quest or thing I'll come what was it called a New York the war games oh a hammerhead yeah I've been to that one
36:12
yeah yes and um I don't really see many people uh that I know and they're bumped
36:18
into Ali Morrison Hey listen and I haven't seen Ali for oh 15 or 20 years
36:24
yeah really you know and he was fine he was quite happy and that's one of the one of the things that Ali is brilliant
36:30
at yeah is that he can take uh the designs from the yellow scope to the other digital
36:37
sculptors and he's one of the guys who can solve uh okay yeah it takes line of
36:43
draw into effect into consideration and all the splitting and all the laying out
36:49
and you know when you look at a workshop plastic model now it's so Dynamic
36:56
um but it's because they've decided that that's the model that it's going to make it's we're not trying to pretend that
37:03
that will be obtain other different figures yeah yeah yeah yeah it just makes that figure and
37:09
that that is enabling Ali to and or other people to cut the model up in just
37:15
the right way yeah um and so liner draw is is it's the engineering
37:21
um aspect of of making these things yeah into reality I guess is that something
37:27
you don't really need to worry so much about with 3D printing or is that still no I mean and some of the the like the
37:33
solid modeling software that we have now they've got um things that will solve that for you so yeah it does a lot of
37:39
the the donkey work you know but every now and then because it's a computer it does something stupid and you have to go
37:45
in and say no no no no and fix that yourself yeah but generally speaking it is pretty good at doing so other
37:52
programs have got other um perhaps less um sophisticated ways of solving it but
37:59
yeah but they do they do have them um yeah but it's if you're making injection molded stuff
38:05
um you have to because as I say it's engineering the the steel tool doesn't care whether it's
38:11
making a Space Marine or a plug or a cup it's it's just an absolute yeah you know
38:18
so that's that's really why everybody Steve was like making scenery for a workshop and then you'd have like this
38:23
sort of like beige sort of net map thing is making and then every now and again
38:29
there's like a little bit of pink that he's got to like yeah he's got to tell you that yeah and that's where laying a drawing yeah that's really really clever
38:34
that does that yeah yeah that'll break off or ruin the model or whatever so that's always clever yeah but it's
38:40
it's that's why you know do you mind if I oh yeah that was just a test yeah this
38:45
this one here is a perfect example really of how good the workshop system
38:52
is now you know the the the faces here the faces are all presented to the two
39:00
so very well the the helmets the detailing on the the shoulder pads it's
39:07
all been designed now so that it maximizes the detail across the design
39:14
face of the tool and minimizes the disturbance around the edge you know
39:19
because they're so chock-a-block these days as well because I got an old screw I think it was yeah it must have been
39:25
Canadians or something like that it was a an older yeah Imperial guards brew and it was like Baron
39:31
oh now there's not a centimeter that's right that's right and that's because it's it's because it's no internal
39:39
um in the old days when we were designing sprues and we were using we
39:44
were Outsourcing the pattern work which was the the making of the uh yeah and we
39:50
were Outsourcing the tooling which would be taking the pattern and making it into
39:55
the steel mold um and both of those were really very expensive they were part of the
40:01
automotive industry and were very expensive operations which is why a lot
40:07
of the frames were pretty bare yeah yeah we only put in what we could afford yeah
40:12
yeah it was crazy yeah whereas now with digital you know the machines will be a
40:18
little bit slower cutting an extra sword but not that much slower yeah you know and they can they can still do it you
40:24
know the machines will work 24 hours a day yeah I don't know if they still do it I remember we used to have meetings where they were like there was a kit
40:30
being made and stuff and you'd get like an engineer come in and you'd have like a little fold out of like all the different because you have like small
40:36
sprue character sprue medium Sprouts yeah and they have like this layout and they'll be like Drop Like I guess
40:42
silhouettes of all the parts yeah but like yeah this bit's been circled because that's that's not going to fit
40:48
on now we need to like change that and yeah move this and stuff and I was used to find that fascinating where you got like an engineer who's been doing all
40:54
this work comes into the meeting with like this fold out print out of like the sprue and just go now this is going to
40:59
be a problem this is going to be a problem well that's that's partly because we've got the the sculptures the people are at my end you've maybe got a
41:07
couple of a couple of platforms a couple of software programs you're using to make the figures but the engineers
41:12
they've got another two or three sets of software that do all the solving yeah
41:19
yeah it will then take these models that have been cut up and then they'll start to lay them out in a a proper manner you
41:27
know that will fit the the frame you know because at the end of the day the plastic is injected in this in the case
41:34
of this sprue it's been injected here okay yeah yeah and so this liquid
41:40
plastic is squeezed in and has to find its way through all the sprues
41:46
through all the little sub Gates fill all the little cavities that will make legs and torsos and arms and
41:52
weapons and heads and and it it's got to be done in such a manner that
41:59
it's like icing you know when that normal when that molten plastic goes in it's
42:04
funneling through all of these little things like like filling a tree and if
42:10
if it's designed so that two pieces of plastic will enter like say here
42:16
you've got this this arm there's two feets there yep two feet so if the
42:21
plastic's coming in to fill that void from two directions
42:27
and when it hits it it sticks together yeah but it only sticks together a wee
42:34
bit okay so if the if that that model then when you cut it off uh it might
42:42
just park uh that's interesting yeah yeah and that's why things like not so much with with um 40K because there
42:49
aren't many spear shafts but on on Warhammer fantasy or yeah whatever it's
42:54
called now and there's there's the spear shafts have always been a problem because they had to squeeze the plastic
43:00
in I don't know if you could illuminate this I always used to find it
43:06
fascinating I don't know if it was like a a design intention or just like a mutation of the process but aurikai
43:13
spear spikes for lord of rings they they had they were quite long and they have it breaking but what they would do was have a man and a female fit in so you
43:19
can re-glue it together oh right yeah which is really weird and it was really handy yeah as a hobbyist because it was
43:25
like you'd have like this little thing picking out you just go I'll just get it back in there yeah yeah well that's that was one way to solve it yeah you know um
43:31
that's just mad it's almost like like the plastic's got its own mind well it does you know and it's just such when
43:38
you when you break it down they said just such a practical thing yeah molten plastic squeezed into a steel mold and
43:45
it doesn't care what it what it's making yeah you know um not so much to do with this but I've
43:52
made models for people who wanted to make English Civil War pikemen oh yeah now if they're modeling an 18 foot or a
44:00
12 foot Pike for the tool meter that's just like a nightmare because how does he
44:06
you know fill that that spear so that when it's on the war games table it doesn't go big yeah and just snap off
44:13
and run a model I love like a lot of the old war games to play it's just like you bought those metal separately yes
44:18
they're hands cooked yes and you just slide it in yeah because I like a lot of like Lord of the Rings figures that
44:24
would break and I'd replace some of these like brass yeah Pikes but then you'd forget how sharp they are when you
44:30
lean down to grab right come on yeah [Laughter]
44:35
I mean I'm sure there are still people who are doing I do those things there are the little nails or dressmakers pins
44:42
really yeah yeah you know um dangerous things yeah I think for a 40K they've managed again because it's
44:49
sci-fi they can design rounder and they yeah they have done that so well you know
44:54
it's it's it's a remarkable remarkable thing have you found out doing like the
44:59
digital stuff is like chain it sounds really weird but change the way you approach sculptor is it just like still
45:04
because I know like from a technical point of view there's lots of different things but from like a designing kind of
45:09
side of it it's like you still yeah the same fundamentals or like oh no I have to go pretty much the same fundamentals
45:15
I mean one of the great things about digital stuff is that you amass um a huge Archive of stuff you've done
45:24
before that you can bring out and it's just as fresh as it was yeah you know
45:29
um so Weaponry basic figures you know so you can you know I I've got several
45:35
torsos and bodies that I can just start from you know so I don't have to
45:41
you know sculptize it bring them in yeah and I can tweak them a little bit and then I can put put clothes on them or
45:48
put armor on them and I can bring in some armor bring in some helmets bring in some packs bring in some harnesses
45:54
bringing some boots yeah and bring them all together and and then it all fits
45:59
yeah you know and that's that's great it's a bit like Lego yeah yeah like
46:04
loads of like assets yeah yeah you just bring them together and um you know you
46:11
just build a kind of essentially like a t-shape pose you know yeah a man standing there
46:16
with his arms out and you can you can clad that in any way you you wish and
46:21
then once you're happy with it then you can start animating it yeah you know
46:27
um so that yeah so it has affected the way that figures are designed I think
46:32
um it means then if you're wanting to create a new one you've really just got
46:38
to go back to a Sketchbook yeah and start sketching again and drawing because that's the only way you'll
46:43
discover a new new designs new Solutions I think you know or and looking on the internet lots
46:50
of other things you know um you know it's a fantastic resource you know for anything really but I mean
46:58
I was glass company it's gonna be one I'm gonna jump on some patreon questions a minute I'm assuming you've probably got some questions as well yeah I would
47:04
do for Tom by the way we're probably probably could do with uh getting onto the questions yeah because
47:09
I'll I'll do it for the patreons benefit instead of my own benefit yeah so there
47:14
are a whole bunch and some of the like things I was going to ask but I'm going to get them to ask you so obviously
47:20
people are happy to hear that you're back on uh oh so we've got a possum man hello possum man uh are there any good
47:27
books or resources that Bob can recommend for beginners getting into designing sculpting Miniatures okay oh
47:32
does any sculpting many Church uh I would say there are there are several there's some
47:38
I've noticed on Facebook that are um and forgive me I don't know their titles uh I didn't go any further
47:45
because I looked and thought a hundred dollars so yeah I don't think you need to do
47:51
that I think you need to get good grounding in in anatomy yes and
47:56
proportions and you've really got to start with that yeah there are many many good books and online resources for for
48:03
anatomy lots of ways that you can study that um the way then things like cloth folds
48:11
yes there are books on dynamic dynamic folds there's one book
48:17
and then there's also you need to get that precisely the dynamic uh Dynamic
48:23
Anatomy yeah which is like superhero posies and how to bring dynamism into
48:28
your models um that kind of comes digitally now that comes later after
48:34
you've solved making the design of the model um uh looking at
48:41
and really looking at uh models that you admire yeah
48:46
um and and analyzing them and figuring out well how would I have made this
48:51
model you know what what techniques would I have used you know the the the
48:57
the way that folds now on this this cloak is now fashioned uh you know there
49:04
are lots of digital tricks to create these now um and it's a it's a great wonderful
49:11
technique um the the layering of detail on models is also
49:18
important because essentially at the end of the day you're going to make something which is 30 30 to 34
49:24
millimeters tall it's not very big and if you're going to paint it you've got to make sure that it lends itself to
49:30
being painted you could make what you might call a museum scale model yeah
49:36
where the the thickness of the harness was the scale thickness of the harness
49:41
which is nice okay yeah and and you would then need to have real expert
49:47
painting very very fine scale painting so you need to be able to establish a
49:52
layering effect you know so make sure that when you're using armor it's got a bit of thickness to it
49:59
um make sure that you know all your strap work all your rivets even if if
50:05
you've got a river if if you're doing a digital thing like zbrush there are several tools Alphas is is their term
50:12
for uh three-dimensional height map that you use to stamp
50:18
um an object with a texture or or a shape like a rivet or nuts and bolts anything
50:26
like that you can create your own um but one of the good things about that would be to create say you had a rivet
50:33
on your chest yeah if there was a little Gully around the edge of the rivet that goes
50:40
in yeah now that doesn't really exist but it helps Define that edge and it's
50:46
great for painting yeah so when you're putting a washer artistic license isn't it you do things sometimes from a like
50:51
when I'm painting on these things because it looks better from a distance yeah or whatever so that makes a lot of sense yeah yeah yeah so what you're
50:57
trying to do is help the um help the painter when he's finally got the model in his hands and he's trying to paint it
51:04
make it easy yeah make it easy to paint you know you reminded me there was a when they did the dwarfine breakers or
51:10
the dwarf I think it was the eye Breakers they had all this not work sculpted on the armor panels one undercoat's gone yeah the deal just
51:17
takes it it's like because it's so shallow yeah freehand it in yeah uh for the box
51:22
covers or so it's like yeah yeah so that's nice so we've got Rupert Millwood whiffing who's gonna uh someone someone
51:29
asked this every time which is how much water could a woodchuck chuck but I'm not gonna get you to answer that because they just do it
51:35
now uh what were the sources of inspiration for Space Marines and did you ever think
51:41
the Marine you designed were all those years ago become so iconic with such a depth of law to it
51:46
right okay so sources inspiration right okay so I suppose
51:52
um Rick who walked on Warhammer 40 000 had his own
51:58
verbal description and we talked about things like uh the description of
52:05
um the space Troopers in Starship Troopers yes yeah and highline's book
52:11
um not the movie yeah nothing like it yeah but it wasn't the description was it no it wasn't it was a it was it was
52:18
another Beast entirely so there was that there was also the idea that these were
52:24
men who were basically uh augmented and who were Superman in a sense
52:32
um locked into their armor originally we had a design saw that in
52:39
our minds it was the same as in Starship Troopers so if you took an injury yeah the suit would automatically you know if
52:48
your foot was damaged Beyond repair it was just automatically just amputate your foot oh wow
52:54
um and so in our minds that was the kind of suit yes these guys were wearing so
53:00
there was that there was also the fact that they were um uh they were infantry
53:06
yeah assault infantry so they had to be able to move they had to be able to
53:12
obviously hold their weapons and we took a well I personally took a lot of um
53:20
information from second world war and first world war Landings assaults
53:27
um you know what an American infantryman would wear what a British infant would wear what the webbing yeah
53:34
yeah you know it was like so those were the sort of sources that that we were looking at you know when we were
53:40
designing the the bolt gun was really a kind of like it's a cross
53:46
being a newsy and a brain gone and a stand you know this this you can see if
53:53
you if you strip it back to its Basics that that's really because we had to make it believable yeah you know and and
54:00
something that you could and invest yourself in so those are the kinds of things the backpack I'm looking at the
54:06
Space Marine backpack now was was a kind of sci-fi reiteration of uh as a standard
54:17
infantryman's backpack yeah from a second world war like where the blanket roll yeah and
54:23
packs yeah or clustered around it you know and so that's really what what the
54:28
backpack started off okay yeah you know um so those those are the the main
54:35
design sources you know there was a Oh about 10
54:42
or 15 years ago there was a case that went Court where the Games Workshop oh is that the chapter house thing the
54:47
chapter yes thing and they saw they sent these American lawyers over here yeah yeah I mean and I
54:54
went in and I did a presentation to them and answered some questions
54:59
um and those were the sort of things that came up where did it come from yeah you know and that's what I said you know so I all you
55:08
can do is tell the truth yeah you know yeah and that was it and I think I can't remember I think it was
55:14
it was a split decision yeah at the end of it you know I think some of some of the things went what shops we and some
55:21
of the things didn't um but you know it does seem the case that the internet is populated by a lot of
55:27
stuff which isn't strictly from Games Workshop but is is
55:32
used unusable you know there's so much stuff nowadays you can look at there's some inspiration
55:39
somewhere from something else it's very hard to just make something from scratch yeah and I think that's why why probably
55:46
the workshop thing is more to do now about iconography yeah yeah you know that's really where
55:52
because you can present that yeah I mean you can't reinvent a grieve or a van
55:58
brace or a shoulder bag No actually yeah I mean you can change the design of it but you can't no you can still have
56:03
ambrace it's still a shoulder problem no thank you uh also um uh part of that was like
56:10
however and do you ever think the Marine you designed all those years ago becomes so iconic uh with all with such depth of
56:16
law to it I just after I made them um I still remember
56:22
um Brian and and Al America come out and see congratulations for making this
56:27
thing out okay but it's kind of no I think that the answer yeah that the
56:32
outset was no it was just it was another set of figures at that point most of the sculptors were involved in
56:39
making fantasy models yeah and sci-fi was something which was
56:44
they didn't really want to get too heavily into this which is not because it's getting the most popular of the two
56:50
things you know so here we are um but yeah at the outset Sci-Fi was
56:57
like the poor relation yeah yeah
57:02
I guess that goes with the trends as well yeah it does and it'll probably come around yeah yeah if that d d movie
57:08
does well yeah yeah uh okay so James sheargold asks what
57:14
three Miniatures are your favorite that you designed over the years oh blimey you could pick three and that could be
57:19
at any point the thing is I've made so many I know
57:24
Dave said that only in just the last year never mind I know John stress is with like working
57:31
through your catalog probably not stresses I'm not sure I
57:37
could come up with three one one I think it makes it better already
57:44
some of them um are are digital um and some of them
57:51
are not not that old now and I look at them good now and it's not but sorry about
57:58
this it's not Science Fiction it's not fantasy oh it was World War II all right
58:03
okay and it was uh World War II RAF fighter pilot ah nice and I really
58:11
chuffed with that because I I took you know I went into all the harnesses where
58:16
and what kind of helmet was it a type B or a type D you know in the goggles where
58:21
they you know what yeah you know yeah and but the great thing about the digital thing is you can
58:27
drill down and you can make yourself today I'm going to make those goggles and you you get all the reference and
58:34
you just concentrate on making the goggles you don't have to fuss with the rest of the model yeah and you can
58:40
save that off and then bring it in and it looks great yeah that was one of the things that I liked and then
58:47
the other thing about it is because you can then pause it you know so you you bring life to this this you know stick
58:55
man yeah um and you you can you know do that and then the other thing I really quite like
59:01
doing now and it's a bit of a cheat is um especially for these um Pilots is that
59:08
we people will ask for us for their face to be inserted now I can copy a face if
59:14
I get enough photograph reference but also we can digitally scan it yeah so what we do is we just scan the person's
59:21
face and just drop it in and sometimes you look at it that's just brilliant and
59:27
I'm really chuffed with that you know it's a great solution so some of those models aren't I've been really pleased
59:32
with uh I've I've made other weird ones um I made
59:38
a BMW 805 RW engine that wasn't the answer I was expecting
59:45
which was the engine that was used for the me109 oh oh yeah yeah and uh it was
59:53
a complete pain in there yeah back in to make this thing because it's yeah it's
59:58
all pipes and and convoluted exhaust systems and fuel injection systems
1:00:05
um there's a rotary engine of course uh and it was just excuse me it was a swine to me
1:00:13
um but it's quite acceptable it was a good model it was a good model
1:00:20
um yeah and then yeah there's lots of things there's is there a range you would say that you're really proud of
1:00:26
like because you do sci-fi my own stuff I'm really pleased yeah because it's allowed me to mix that make my own thing
1:00:32
there's one that I've still not released which was uh called the Dante's Revenge and it's a spaceship and it's but it's
1:00:39
big and it it's it's one of these things I'm always conscious when I'm making
1:00:46
things like this for people to buy if you've got a standard digital printer
1:00:52
so the printer plates about E5 yeah size if you put more like individual figures
1:00:58
on there you can and you do it right you'll maybe get you could get 15 or 20 on here and print them off and that
1:01:06
means that in you know a couple of hours you can have 15 or 20 figures that's pretty good yeah read
1:01:12
um and it's not you don't use that much resin but if you're going to make a spaceship that's this big okay you've
1:01:17
got to cycle through maybe maybe 10 maybe 20 prints print Cycles
1:01:25
um before you've got all the parts to make this thing which at the end of the day you just put it on the table and
1:01:31
then you move all the b-man around it because yeah that makes sense yeah sure yeah I'm in a quandary because I I feel
1:01:38
like I'm indulging myself when I meet this spaceship you know it's great
1:01:44
because it's got all sorts of interior details and there's it's like a film set yeah you know you could go into it and
1:01:50
wonder about it and everything yeah it's really nice but it's would people have a
1:01:56
printer wow we'll find out yeah yeah yeah yeah link to the description
1:02:02
uh I was going to mention about uh like engines and stuff I remember I wanted I was collecting Soviets World War II and
1:02:08
I wanted a t34 just simple t34 Tammy was quite expensive because I went to Derby wargame show and there was another
1:02:13
company I can't remember the name of it and it was like a tenor and I was like I'm gonna get that you had to build the entire engine before you can build the
1:02:19
rest of the tank around wow I know I was like I'll give up Dave do you want a 235
1:02:25
I thought I might give it to Ray actually in seven days but yeah I've never got around to it just put me off uh right we have uh gunwich he's asking
1:02:33
uh congrats for coming back uh welcome uh question what is your fondest memory
1:02:38
of working at GW back in today all right lots of lots of good ones um because we
1:02:46
we saw and at one point we didn't have our own space the sculptors so we were
1:02:52
sitting upstairs in the studio with where John was working and Charlie Elliott and all these people and so
1:02:58
there was a rule um we typically worked then at jewelers benches which have got like a half moon
1:03:04
uh oh yeah yeah um and and there was a whole we'd had a
1:03:09
row of those built and there was me Jazz Ali Trish
1:03:16
um Nick baby wouldn't come in very often because he was allergic to this white millipop oh really is I think
1:03:23
um so he couldn't come near that he could only just about cope with green stuff um but he made beautiful more it must be
1:03:28
a nightmare being the sculpted but Nick needs some fantastic stuff
1:03:34
um um and then the twins would come in every now and then um because they'd like walking at home
1:03:39
yeah yeah um and then we moved downstairs and so there was a there was a kind of party yeah atmosphere it was really good you
1:03:47
know um and when we moved downstairs in a way that kind of got even better because we could we were almost chewing
1:03:54
the fat and you know you would say oh what do you think about this Ali or what do you think about this Jason and seeing
1:03:59
how different people worked yeah you know because Jay's was always very planned and organized and always had
1:04:06
drawings and and people like me and Ali who'd come from like historical World game and
1:04:12
we just like
1:04:19
different different ways of working and that was that was really fascinating seeing people like that working together
1:04:26
yeah and we rubbed along pretty well yeah you know yeah then Kevin came and
1:04:31
he he didn't like being with everybody else so he we had this little room where
1:04:37
Kevin sat and he made all his gobble and stuff where's Kevin Adams uh okay yeah yeah
1:04:42
um and and he just made all his Goblin stuff in there yeah I suppose when I
1:04:48
look back at my times in the studio you'd have like something like really social one others are just like headphones on yeah in a corner you're
1:04:55
like cool I do remember because I I'm fond of singing
1:05:01
and um Jazz bless him was sitting next to me and eventually he just said could you
1:05:08
please stop singing and I said okay okay but I couldn't stop and I just kept going it's like a nervous twitch yeah
1:05:15
and it I I can't he didn't get violent but at one point he was he was saying I
1:05:21
will not be able to carry on working here if you don't stop so I had to stop so yeah you know and that was a shame
1:05:28
yeah so I don't know maybe headphones was the answer but in those days it was like Sony for everyone else yeah
1:05:34
everyone else yeah yeah I I used to we were lucky we had a the Army painting team we used to have a little room and
1:05:40
had a sink in it and we could close the door we didn't like close the door because it was closed all it was made a barrier
1:05:45
but it was just there because we used to have power ballad Fridays so just stick every Power ballad on we had uh like
1:05:52
country and western Fridays or my favorite was the national anthem and it's surprising how many national anthems are the same yeah yeah
1:05:58
the the UK national anthem is like used like at least 50 more
1:06:08
those kind of like camaraderie groups for a long time in fact one of the
1:06:14
things about coming on freelance the the sadness of it was that solitary thing yeah you know that you were suddenly all
1:06:21
by yourself yeah you know and that was you know I did miss that yeah I suppose yeah yeah I mean that you
1:06:29
know there's just a group of three of us now as opposed to an office of like 20 or whatever yeah uh right okay so we've
1:06:35
got uh Jamie Harold uh and he's like as a fellow Scott I'd like to know if uh if he thinks the early massive input from
1:06:41
himself and the likes of Ali Morrison are truly appreciated within the wider GW Canon for everything being England
1:06:47
notching Nottingham should do right uh also there's someone in my village with the number plate 40K and I've
1:06:54
always wondered if that's some rich GW boy and it probably isn't it I don't know
1:07:00
any stuff other than like the higher management yeah
1:07:10
I never really um I wasn't conscious of any kind of
1:07:17
England Scotland can you do the job you know because yeah
1:07:23
David Gala was there doing doing his artwork of course yeah you know he got Tris as well yeah Trish I think
1:07:29
nationalism is quite a low thing amongst creatives isn't it yeah you don't you don't really they didn't it didn't
1:07:35
trigger I mean I suppose maybe if like uh you're doing the Jacobite Wars and
1:07:41
the English were forced to make the English and the Scots were forced to make the skies this guy's did a lot of damage
1:07:50
but no I mean it wasn't I mean there was only one I remember um Richard Halliwell wrote a scenario
1:07:56
for Warhammer fantasy which was cold it was based on Macbeth it was called Macbeth
1:08:04
and but it was all it was dropped on as it won it it's very short notice and and
1:08:10
Brian said we need some figures we need some figures and I said well I could make some men in kilts so when I made in
1:08:18
in one day and this I mean I don't know how long it takes people to skunk figures now and one day I think I made
1:08:24
eight Islanders in kilts you know some Keepers
1:08:30
and some with swords and and they were the kind of the Infantry that'd be that scary and they were all this yeah
1:08:38
and I was quite exhausted at the end of it but but it was it I was the obvious
1:08:43
man to come to you know because I was a Scott so yeah actually obviously they were all inside yeah
1:08:49
[Laughter] did they let you out for breaks or
1:08:55
anything no no no that was Enfield Chambers which is
1:09:01
um and low pavement oh yeah yeah there's no Paul Smith I think or something yeah
1:09:07
yeah I know exactly yeah it's gorgeous but yeah so I have an ego branding
1:09:12
saying what was the last thing you sculpted for GW if you can remember that far back oh gosh it may have been it may
1:09:18
have been me oh you did say actually in there yeah um yeah my my job function for like the
1:09:26
last couple years before I left was really um management and admin you know which was
1:09:33
fine but yeah I I always found as a creative person it was so hard yeah I know that feeling so hard because you've
1:09:40
been you didn't know whether you've done a good job or a bad job yeah yeah in any given day well management it's always
1:09:46
like every when things go well you you praise the staff and things go bad it's on you yeah right and your peers hate
1:09:52
you because you're if you're doing well they're like how's your team been so well yeah yeah and and the whole thing
1:09:57
about management was what you really wanted was the job being done yeah but but the people under you really didn't
1:10:03
want to talk about that they wanted to talk about how cold it was or or could they get off early to go and pick up the
1:10:08
kids it wasn't about the job you know yeah well we've talked about uh big blue
1:10:15
Luke asks you a space me an inspiration we've already kind of discussed that uh
1:10:20
oh yeah um so this is from rusted Balkan uh are there any 40K Minis that Bob looks at
1:10:26
and wishes he designed oh the person I've always really admired
1:10:32
is jazz because Jazz is the kind of he's the person who in my view
1:10:38
took the aesthetic yeah yeah by leaps and Bones ahead you know and
1:10:45
and I think only he could have done it because I couldn't have done it yeah so increase the sort of template really did
1:10:50
need to some degree for Marines and I think yeah I think so he's well he's the one that put all the effort into
1:10:56
refining and refining the design into kind of what it's yeah what it's become
1:11:01
now so I think probably the figures that jazz made the Eldar yeah yeah some of
1:11:08
those Elder scorpions and the the just the way he'd taken the taking the ideas
1:11:14
and just ran with them uh I I always admired well even like his um sketches
1:11:20
for his mechanical stuff and that was like donkey's years old but that knows what the inspiration is even like the
1:11:26
weird bird man yeah and the helicopters oh yeah yeah well remember they he drew
1:11:32
that um gun platform necron underneath the Destroyer years before and then when they made it it never looked quite as
1:11:40
cool as his drawing and then they went back and made the made it again when they relaunched the necrons it lasted
1:11:46
and it looked like the original art and it was really cool to see that it it had finally been Vindicated yes yeah yeah
1:11:53
yeah and again that was down to Jesse's method you know that he always Drew stuff you know and from from the
1:12:00
workshop IP point of view that's great yeah you know I would have a Time Jeff does it we've got uh well we've got 30
1:12:06
left oh that's fine we'll be fine for you yeah a few more questions and we'll we'll show the giveaway stuff about an
1:12:13
hour and 25 minutes oh that's fine uh so Chris or just Chris he's called um we're seeing uh so seeing how uh GW
1:12:20
doing more mate order to uh um made to order runs of classic Miniatures and even returning some of the old fantasy
1:12:27
range from the old world uh because that's you know the old world's been being revamped and stuff uh what
1:12:32
miniature uh that Bob has sculpted would he like to see come back as a limited run
1:12:55
the first one was done before we had the weapons yeah sorted so he's just got
1:13:00
this kind of amorphous to be with a really massive big payment on it yeah yeah so it was the design
1:13:08
again that that's the sort of that's where Jesse's strength came in because he he
1:13:14
tied it all down yeah you know and made sense of it you know um give it a uniformity yeah like when
1:13:20
we made the plastic Space Marines it was really Jazz who designed the
1:13:26
um the missile launcher yes yeah that thing you know the over the shoulder bazooka yeah you know
1:13:32
um and he thought it all through um you know so those were the those were
1:13:38
the elements which which gave it um made it real brought it together you
1:13:45
know that's cool uh Thai field uh or typhel sorry um says were you aiming it to make a
1:13:52
unique silhouette or shape back then uh because nowadays Everything feels like it's got designed to have its own silhouette or shape like a dresser it
1:14:00
was a Jakari character looks like an X or anger on like hunched over yes uh doesn't look like the other primarks
1:14:06
have their own silhouette I assume that's probably it is it's pretty much like that I mean again
1:14:11
um conscious of the use of the model on the table uh and have it describe what
1:14:16
it's supposed to be doing so if it's an assault marine or an assault figure it's got to
1:14:23
be in an advancing yeah attacking pose you know it's nice to have a cool guy just standing yeah and then for painting
1:14:30
but really on the table that's what you want yeah you want yeah and likewise as you say if you've got some kind of
1:14:37
completely feral Beast thing you need to have that that pose yeah so you can just look at
1:14:44
the figure and you don't even have to look at the detail you can tell yeah what it is and it's going to rip you to
1:14:49
pieces yeah yeah I'm gonna die uh James Tarrant has asked uh have you ever
1:14:55
hidden little details in your Scoops a little inside joke or Telltale identified to show people Bob was here
1:15:03
um with plastics that was very difficult yeah because you know it has to go through several other hands
1:15:09
um when we were doing um green stuff models we may have done the odd thing you know like put
1:15:15
someone's face in yeah um or or our version of their face
1:15:20
because we were only just scoped um you know was that like the uh the
1:15:26
sculptors for the Terracotta uh the Terracotta Army didn't they just used to sculpt their mate yeah yeah they were
1:15:32
stored next yeah so there were so many in the work and they just did they go yeah
1:15:40
Dave Andrews used to like some of his senior kits and when we used to do big conversions always used to put a milk bottle
1:15:47
it was like there was the Empire State troops had like a wine bottle and on one of the uh it was like a tower that had
1:15:54
like a or um he put like one of those on the doorstep and then a lot of like there was a massive great big entrance
1:16:00
to a hive and he put like two or three into like gold tops that's brilliant it's just like a little Milkman I don't
1:16:06
know how many did that too but I used to be wow no I no I just my my
1:16:12
position if you like in the in the team of sculptors was I was the person who
1:16:18
was the quick the quick iterator you know if they needed something quick then come to me yeah you know
1:16:25
um when there was a time when Brian was negotiating with lucasfilm to do Star
1:16:30
Wars ah cool and so they had some people over from Star Wars to talk and Brian
1:16:36
said oh you know I could have a model on this table tomorrow
1:16:41
and they said yeah okay so they came to me and said can you make a Star Wars stormtrooper
1:16:47
model and we'll press it you know you make it tonight good luck yeah you know you we'll place
1:16:56
it in the morning cast it and then we'll give it to one of the painters to and so
1:17:01
it was a model here just so that Brian could show that we were capable of doing these things and so I did that but it
1:17:08
fell through I think because um the look is film people wanted
1:17:14
the the model to look just like the movie I.E like Museum type yeah you know
1:17:20
also very slight figure yeah you know and so the model that we made I I'd been
1:17:26
told to give some some attention to that but not to go all the way but they looked at it said no we
1:17:33
can't we don't want to do that yeah I found it fascinating because when we were doing Lord of the Rings it was um
1:17:38
when The Hobbit was kicking off and we were painting some of the stuff for The Hobbit said like the uh the company of
1:17:43
Adventures in like dwellings and like Thorin and all that and you have to every time even if when
1:17:49
you're an oily painter you'd have to get them photographed and then they'd be sent to a new lineups to be signed off and sometimes like that that magenta is
1:17:56
not quite the right turn of magenta because we had like some um footage of uh thank not fangon
1:18:03
merkwood but it was pre-edited so it was like purple and
1:18:09
orange the trees were so it was like no sort of like filters or anything on it so I made a forest and that was fine no
1:18:15
one ever questioned it but a lot of the paint jobs and like the characters and the actors and stuff were constantly like you know that needs to be this thing yeah because that was what they
1:18:21
did yeah you look at Lego it looks nothing like a human yeah but that's
1:18:27
fine standards have definitely stopped at Star Wars so but the funny thing is to say that
1:18:34
then when you consider the three and a half inch action figures yeah a lot of them were so wildly oh yeah yeah yeah
1:18:41
you know yeah yeah I mean I had this I mean I did what for um Hasbro and they
1:18:47
were working today Disney license and Disney was just awful because you know
1:18:54
they would say you know that they would come back and see uh Alice in Wonderland it's not right
1:19:00
um when you need to change the eyes and I said okay how do you want to change eyes um and the quote was make it look more
1:19:07
quizzical the office was like it needs a bit more
1:19:14
yeah defined yeah yeah a little bit more Ruger I'll I'll just
1:19:21
get that on me a good alternator is worth his or her weight and gold yeah you know somebody
1:19:28
can articulate that idea that's come from top and get the artist
1:19:34
to make that thing is that's just gold yeah you know yeah it's all part the
1:19:41
same like machine isn't it really you want to be trying to get the best out of it yeah communication yeah yeah
1:19:47
absolutely Chris Davis uh is saying has there ever been uh has he ever come up
1:19:52
with a design that he was told was too complex expensive to make uh and as the 3D printer Revolution
1:19:57
fixed issues like that um yeah 3D is pretty much you can do
1:20:03
pretty much anything you can make scary scale things you know I'll show you
1:20:09
definitely the digital thing has done that um in terms of um sculpting for Workshop no because
1:20:17
usually what would happen is that we would only get to sculpt something if it was needed yeah yeah you know it was it
1:20:24
was very very little stuff that was just made on spec you know um the closest thing we got was I made a
1:20:31
tyranid um a plastic Master for a tyranid kind of
1:20:37
like Queen okay yeah yeah and they looked at it and they said nah it's too close to the movie uh so yeah aliens so
1:20:46
that just went and pretty much went in the bin yeah you know which was a shame you know but in those days these were
1:20:54
all models made in um what was called foam board which is a tool board that is
1:20:59
used in the pattern making industry for cars and it's kind of like Aero like very very very fine scale oh yeah hero
1:21:07
yes and cut it so easily yeah but you can put a finish on it it was great it was easy to work with
1:21:13
um so a lot of the the this model was built out of that with odd bits of that brown clay on it yeah yeah yeah very
1:21:20
these were only temporary solutions yeah yeah um in those days um so yeah so that didn't see the light
1:21:27
of day didn't didn't leave the studio oh yeah yeah it's a shame uh so this is
1:21:33
probably jumps onto what you've got here actually because I know you brought that book in yeah uh is there a set in wheel that currently doesn't have a tabletop
1:21:39
game that Bob would love to see become one if not if you're able to create minis for a brand new setting what would
1:21:44
it be well as you see I brought this um this was a book that I discovered at
1:21:50
Newark about a month ago it's what they call an agnostic rule set so it doesn't
1:21:56
it's not really trying to sell like push one manufacturer's figures uh sci-fi the
1:22:03
setting is Mars um great cover yeah yeah and it's it's
1:22:08
it's kind of like it it's been successful in France but it's a French set of rules has been around for a
1:22:14
couple of years and done pretty well over there and it's now got an English translation with the help of Nick
1:22:21
Northstar and so this is doing the rounds and I've been speaking to the chaps who wrote
1:22:27
this and I'm going to make some some figures they've trolled through my
1:22:33
website yeah and they've got loads of it's again it's like kill team yeah you build a team of you know five to ten
1:22:40
models um maybe 12 and uh and you just face off
1:22:45
on the table that's cool yeah using these rules um so this is what I'm currently working
1:22:50
with just now so um I think John's going to help um with this maybe getting some print
1:22:57
done and we're talking about the idea of pre-printing
1:23:02
gangs yeah yeah so they'll be available uh
1:23:09
here and over the water um to play this game um but I did I dare say you could
1:23:16
probably transpose that and then you um because of the way this is written you could bring your kill team boys and
1:23:23
girls into this as well yeah yeah so that that's the one I'm working on at
1:23:29
the moment but I'm open to any of these things I like the idea uh which the original Rogue Trader had
1:23:37
which was it was almost agnostic of course we were trying to sell Space Marines and of course
1:23:43
we're trying to sell Orcs on live training center but we made no bones that you could use any figure you wanted
1:23:49
yeah yeah you know and I love that idea yeah that this was about gaming it was
1:23:54
about getting on the table with some Miniatures it wasn't about someone telling you that figures that
1:24:01
figures will keep it that figure isn't yeah I didn't like that I mean I was looking through the real mccaus book a
1:24:07
couple of nights ago and it's very similar like the Army list it was like you can have 120 cow Stokes just describes roughly what weapons yeah
1:24:14
there could be any models right yeah but even like the chaos Marines it doesn't really say it has to be this design of chaos Marine it could just be whatever
1:24:20
you want it to be yeah as long as it's got a gun yes um and you have like five of them but yeah like you say it's yeah
1:24:27
that that's cool that that gets a lot from the pizza the workshop business
1:24:32
model is is well let's just see it works yeah yeah yeah it does yeah um but part of
1:24:40
that is it's got it controls yeah I mean I'm a stickler for it because I've been
1:24:45
I'm really into a a it's an agency pretty much Warhammer uh it's a scary game called war cry and you have like
1:24:52
bands and they come as box bands but yeah you can add more when they die you can replace them so they give you like a selection of Warriors that you can get
1:25:00
in there but as you play through campaigns you can add more if you wanted to or yes less or whatever so I've been like actually looking at third party
1:25:06
figures now and there's like a I've got I've made some sisters of Sigma and I've used like some sister battle for that
1:25:13
um and I was like I want a dwarf I want a dwarf to it like a warrior none well I can't have a female dwarf and my
1:25:18
sister's a similar because they're all like the elves the humans and the dwarfs are all lying together now so I got a 3D
1:25:23
model from we print minis yeah John I was up to paint their up in the same color scheme fits in nicely uh so and
1:25:29
I'm like I don't have to worry about that if I want to play games with my friends they're not gonna go you can't use that because that's not a workshop model don't care yeah which is you know
1:25:37
it should be about the that evening or afternoon exactly what's
1:25:42
your friends yeah having having a good time yeah so that's really cool I'm really interested but I'm gonna get a copy of that myself and
1:25:49
um uh I suppose if you really into like things like uh oh what's the TV show
1:25:54
about Mars the belts yeah so would you want to reenact the
1:26:00
expansion I mean that is like yeah I think that that would be the model that's inside yeah so you know the the
1:26:06
backstory is all about kind of like conspiracies and you know so that the there's the depth to it which is I
1:26:14
suppose it's their version of Chaos in a sense yeah you know there's there's something going on yeah yeah we don't
1:26:20
know what it is you know yeah and that's that's that's part of that story you know well we have plenty more questions
1:26:26
so we can get three more because we are running a long time okay um and battery percent is 17. so we're just gonna
1:26:33
quickly go over so when we had Pete the war game Run we did a giveaway for April all right so we're just gonna go through some models so if you do want to get
1:26:40
hold of some of these kits if you join our patreon it could be any tier uh we will be put well there's a post-up where
1:26:45
it's uh the video for Pete the wargamer all you need to do is answer this question which is what is Pete the war
1:26:50
game's first name is it a Steve B Stevie C Stevo or D Pete
1:27:03
so you could win uh Morgan raw uh oh yes these are nice a death company
1:27:11
intercessor yeah one of those one of these it's not that one it's the peach looking one with a bald head uh we
1:27:18
haven't got a Jeff or a date no maybe when we get near me if we sell it if we have a space Wolf one or something
1:27:24
yeah yeah yeah and then we have some Orcs we have mozzrogs
1:27:38
this fella thank you very much Debbie McGee Debbie McGee and Bob naism that's the
1:27:46
same and everybody have morick as well so five lovely gifts to give away so yeah just best ways are done
1:27:52
I've got that one it does way up here but yes all you need to do is give the
1:27:59
correct answer pop that into the comments of the People video for April's giveaway uh and we will choose them at
1:28:06
the end of the month I may join myself yeah they do you you get more you could get Morgan yeah oh pretty good question
1:28:13
though the question well it's I know I mean I mean it could have been worse I mean if if it was like a new one and you were on
1:28:19
the stuff it could have been yeah what is Bob next
1:28:26
first modern chord because I remember we used to we
1:28:53
yeah yeah let's give her that yeah well thank you as always Bob first
1:28:58
that's been a really good fun show uh Bob's website and we print minutes will be in the links as well so check those
1:29:04
guys out because they they make some amazing stuff uh and I said before we went on I've never mention it when I was
1:29:09
on on live about Dave just again you made so many models oh yeah if when Dave Andrews seems impressed that that to me
1:29:16
is it's hard to say it's hard to do yeah it's great fun yeah so thank you very much for coming on uh yeah well back it
1:29:23
was really kind to me thank you very much the first returning guest so well I
1:29:28
know what you're like
1:29:35
I don't know damn right stop again he won't leave us alone just have him on just have him on
1:29:40
just another one we won't we won't edit it we'll just saying we're just talking for an hour it's fine
1:29:48
it's like The Shining for the heat like the rest of us so Pat's not here right now so we don't care uh so hopefully
1:29:54
yeah I hope you get well all right yes
1:30:00
visions of a little like warm a little warm flam all over his head yes I've got a dressing going on the
1:30:08
special pajamas oh yeah I've got to wear those I don't forget to hit the like And subscribe and check out our patreon and
1:30:14
thank you to our patreon supporters you guys are amazing so thank you very much guys thanks