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this video is sponsored by Squarespace hello I'm Jeff hello I'm Ross and I'm
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Patrick and we are joined from Steam Forge yet again by Matt hello thanks for having ja
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but you're here wear in a slightly different hat that's from the last conversation what are you going to tell
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us about uh so we are going to talk about the P3 paint range and some of the work we' been doing for the last 6
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months or so wow so this is coming as part of your um deal like you've done
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with priv OP press this is coming from there cuz I do remember back in the day that whenever I seen um whenever I seen
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the private press range on the Shelf in a shop that we previously talked about P3 was nestled in right beside it so I
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always got that feeling that it was designed that they went hand in hand and so then your plan is to put that
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relationship back together again then really yes so I think uh historically P3 paint has always been recognized by
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painters for you know some some really amazing properties and it it's a it's a much loved paint range that's just not
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been around for the last year or so so one of the first things that we want to do is is is get it back so people can
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access it um and we can we can talk at length about What P3 paint does and what
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it's going to do going forward um and and why it should be you know something that people look at to to add to their
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painting Arsenal for what of a better expression um but yeah it's it's it's
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it's sad that there's so many of these wonderful colors that simply aren't available and it's making them available
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that's the primary Mission well it always has a good pedigree and because you know even now I I'll watch certain
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YouTube videos when it comes to painting and someone will have you know they'll pick one of them up and he can almost hear like a choir yeah and there'll be a
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beam of Holy Light behind it when they pick it up it's like you know like Richard Gray picking up his Morrow white
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these these paints that are like you know you know I've got my one of them in the my one of them in that I have in my
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range is I've got um a bottle of Games Workshop Chestnut ink oh right that's slowly disappear and and I'm just like
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oh so interestingly at that time that was the paint base that P3 was based on
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oh right is it really so so as I understand so P3 which I was going to
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ask what it means but P3 means private a press paint doesn't it yeah okay so well
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that's what I assume it does let's say it does so that's what it means everyone yeah we got to come up
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with a new acronym now cuz um yeah I mean p sfg P1 I don't see with P3 just
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so people can recognize it come some well retrofit like the best acronyms retrofit one make we do that so so P3
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obviously came out with as the the paint line for privac a press games so what
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what was it because it's no longer available at the moment it sort of disappeared the stock has dwindled
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there's maybe a few on some hobby store shelves but other than that gone um you're looking to bring it back so where
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did it do you know where it started in the first place yes so and again this might be an incomplete kind of history
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but my understanding is uh that Mike m was heavily involved in in the a good
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start a great start um and uh so he he obviously came from uh like the heavy
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metal kind of Citadel background wanted to bring um that knowledge and experience to the paint range and
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therefore work closely with the manufacturer on getting certain properties into the paint so it behaved
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in the way that that he wanted to for that sort of painting style that they adopted in the studio um and then once
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they got that it was then developing the color range to Sue and support um the
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the range of War Machine and hordes um which is um more on the um on the
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realistic end of the scale rather than a lot of you know modern pain ranges now are super saturated super poppy really
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bright colors um the the P3 p range pretends to be more kind of realistic
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and and grounded bit more AK yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so no no bright
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fluorescent tones or anything like that and and very much more like you're not going to get neon green you'll get more
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of a like grass-based green kind of thing kind of thing because I think one of the things to bear in mind with P3
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paint you know is the the formula is probably about 20 years old so pain
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technology has moved on like a long long way Pigman technology has moved on a long long way so so you look at um like
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a a color like necrite green which is like a really bright vibrant green um
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back in the day like all yellow based Paints the coverage wasn't great you had to work really hard to kind of get any
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kind of you know um color coming through so they tended to to feature less
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heavily in in the range overall because they just weren't the strongest colors uh whereas you look at like the Browns
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and the darker colors they they were a lot easier to kind of put you know get recent layer down so one of the things
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that we've been doing is is looking to take advantage of a lot of the um advances in pain technology so we can
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get that coverage up get the saturation up and and still maintain the same behavior that the paint had before right
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okay so then they're not coming back as what the as was sort of no and this so
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this is one of the most terrifying things about my existence for the last so as long as I can think back like last
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three or six months been like living in abject error of getting this wrong is there's such a fondness and and I and I
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and I worry about the strength of nostalgia but but when you dig below that surface and I've been painting a
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lot with the old P3 paints um this year and it's it reminded me how much I enjoy
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the behaviors that P3 paints have and and uh you know essentially I don't think there's a better paint on the
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market or available at Wet blending or you know anything where you're involved in blending while the while the paint's still wet so if you're into to brush
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blending or feather blending spit blending whatever you want to call it or just straight out you know wet blending
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P3 pains just behave the most reliably and the the easiest to kind of you know
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get that style working it does mean like all paints there is no one size fits all so it's brilliant of that it just means
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it's not going to be as good as other things and I think for my perspective looking to bring a uh a paint into a
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dare I say a saturated Market very um I think you got to have a
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really clear picture of why you're doing it because you can't just bring a pain range out no not nowadays that was
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definitely going to be um something that that I was going to ask but it's great that disc come up naturally and and I
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think some of our patrons have said it too like I don't think you can just bring out an okay range of paints now
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like because there's another company that do that you got to have something somebody already has done and people own
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purchase of a website or domain yeah yeah so so so for the so the original P3
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there was colors that people often refer to um so Morrow white meno white
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highlight cold black to name but a few sanguin bass these are colors that people just absolutely love um but I
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think what they love Beyond just the the the tone of you know the color of it is is actually how it behaves so the first
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thing that we needed to do was understand how does the paint range behave um where do we need to to
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normalize it because I think one of the things that take um take the Fanatics paint range right now it's a wonderful
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example of how every single paint regardless of color behaves pretty
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similarly so it will dry in a Rel same time it will behave it'll come off the brush in the same sort of feel we will
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you know will go onto the model in the same sort of way and and you it is entirely consistent so when you're
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learning how to paint with a paint you're it's much easier to learn with a paint if they all behave the same yeah I
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pick on them because they're big enough and ugly enough look at Games Workshop contrast paints as a as another example of how not to do it yeah some of them
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beautiful straight out of the pot effortless others either not strong enough they're a bit weak they don't
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quite work or others are so heavily pigmented you need to dilute them about 10 times over hug didn't it this is
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something that I've been going through recently and I think I've talked about a bit as well is yeah I've been sort of I
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don't know I've been airbrushing quite a lot recently haven't really been doing like tons with contrasts and then now I'm like going into other projects and
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I'm like oh contrast paint I remember how they work straight out the pot and then being like oh no wait wait it's got
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if it's got like a chalky bit in it it means it covers quite well but then the new ones they don't have the chalk in
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but they still cover really well and that's like a wash and that doesn't do any like it's it's a very inconsistent
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range I think it and I think it's okay when when you've leared it right but for
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someone who's new to that range that's that's a barrier for entry that they you know that they need to overcome and I
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you know during the testing just anecdotally I got a whole brand new set of samples right so I've given a load of
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feedback and a few tweaks that I wanted to make and they gave me a sample setback I picked out one part paint pot
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and I just started painting with it and it was awful it was like it was the color was splitting on my brush it was
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coming off and almost like it was like a it was almost like tart and paint coming down it was just weird it split into
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blue and green D like Viagra was found by accident oh God and I was and I was like okay maybe
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it's just me maybe it's a bit warm maybe it's like so I went again and I went again and again again and I was banging my head against the wall with this pain
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and I like oh and I got really depressed and I was like pinging rich and I was like oh I don't know what we're going to do it's totally screwed I don't know how
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we going to how am I going to turn this ship around uh like and he T me down from the ledge I went to sort of start
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testing the rest of the range and then it turned out that 95% of the rest of the range was absolutely Bob on and and
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now once I tested all of them the worst paint in the entire range was the first paint part I had picked up randomly now
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you think about it that was my first experience yeah right and it was it was a it was a good blue you know strong
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blue color it's not an uncommon color for for people to pick up yeah that could have just turned you off the
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entire range so really important that that the the quality and the behavior of the paint across the range was
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consistent and and pet3 wasn't because the paint technology itself just didn't
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support it but good news is modern paint bases and formulas can now sustain a
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much heavier pigment load so one of the things we needed to do was was pump the pigments in those paints that needed it
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and keep the ones that were already saturated enough at a right level and now suddenly all of the pain started
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behaving in in a similar fashion and at that point we could then start fine-tuning how the paint actually felt
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and behaved and and and reacted once we get go through that and
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I can chat about that in a little bit more detail because there's some interesting bits there but we're in that final stage now where now we've got the
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paint behaving exactly how we want is absolutely fine-tuning the colors to be precisely the colors that we want them
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to be is it the same manufacturer it is the say manufacturer yeah yeah it's um I
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I don't know how I think it's a heavily guarded secret that isn't terribly secret but um they are Keen for their
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paint to speak for themselves and and not for us to talk about them directly fair enough so are you you say like
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trying to get the colors the way you want them so I'm assuming with the property changes there are going to be some tweaks to the colors but are you
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trying to I mean what when it goes into choosing a pallette then this isn't about oh let's bring those colors back
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because if I'm right you can pretty much mix most of the colors you want what what what is what is it is it about the
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chosen pallette that that you're aiming to to select if that yeah it's a good
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question so I'm um I'm really lucky because I get to stand on the shoulder of giants so is uh it's you know there's
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120 130 paints um about 20 or 30 of them never got released um fully developed by
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the studio team the Privateer Press over the years um so there's way more
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talented artists than me who have already put in an awful lot of time and effort into that kind a core range so
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for me a lot of the really hard work was already done so what I was able to do is
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perhaps with the benefit of a fresh set of eyes is sort of say well these are the colors that I can't do without from
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other ranges is that something that we should bring in so a good example is you know a nice yellow it's a big a
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highlight color um and it's certainly something that the P3 range didn't have
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it will have a nice yellow now going forward because it's so useful to kind of you know act as a highlight yeah yeah
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um so that's a good example of how we're doing it and then beyond that there will be um uh some degree of tailoring to
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like the factions that we are releasing and making sure we kind of got good coverage in in that regard so if you're
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buying a certain faction you know people do like to know what the what the kind
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of like the stock color scheme is um but you know much like uh you see with you know a Space Marine chapter there's a
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thousand different ways of painting a Space Marine um so we don't necessarily want to lean too heavily into sort of
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saying every Kor Army needs to be red and black you know we you get a lot of
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mileage out of all kinds of color you know Green whites etc etc for can you talk about like how you putting them
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together like are we talking like a Triad system which is a common word that's going around or is it more because you've said 120 paints like are
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you are you releasing looking to release 120 paints um so right as of now yes but
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that's subject to kind of like final final shaking down what we will almost certainly do is um and there'll be an
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important distinction between what we release on crowdfunding and what we release to retail right okay so um we
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are uh big fans of making sure that when we sell a product to our retail friends and partners that we're selling them
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something we know is going to turn quite nicely in their in their shops so we're looking to do a curated range for retail
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release of the high turn items um and then some of those more esoteric kind of
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spef specific colors we'll probably look you know if we do it on on Kickstarter or a crowdfunding platform uh those will
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be like a like a Kickstarter thing and then we'll also be able to sell those direct as well so so we don't want our
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retail friends to kind of unless they want to of course but we don't want to sort make them feel they need to carry a
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stock of six pots of pink you know that you're going to sell to a year kind of thing so is the idea like you'll you'll
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get your because because it's going to go hand inand with war machine as well yeah um so is the idea like you were
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talking on the the previous show right we'll have a we'll have a a one a one Rack or two racks so on that one rack
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you'll have these faction boxes and these paid boxers for example is that kind of yeah kind of in principle I
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don't think that we want to put them into specific faction boxes okay so what
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what my current thinking is and and again I need to sort of socialize this you know with the commercial team and the marketing team just to make sure
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that be confirmed and yeah so this is all yeah to be confirmed but I feel like
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room for a starter set style box that has a lot of like the really core colors in it and then everything else can be
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like oneof and you just buy the singles for the paints that you want yeah um for the kickstar there will almost certainly
17:10
be a like an Allin kind of get everything um yeah yeah whether we do that as a retail skew or not is up for
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grabs so right that's largely down to the marketing team and the brand Team and the and the commercial team to to
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make sure that we're putting together products uh that our distribution friends and partners actually want to
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want to carry would you be tempted to have uh the blend in the way that games work up do between War Machine and the
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paint of like a character figure in a box with paint or certainly something we
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thought about you know I think Army painter do brilliantly with that um uh and it's a really nice way to to get
17:48
people into the hobby as well it and it it acts as that kind of sign post to
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maybe I don't know Mom and Dad or Grandma and Granddad going in and like oh well that's kind of a cool Christmas
17:59
gift or everything including the paintbrush so and we get uh a lot of traction and a
18:05
lot of excitement we do paint and takes at shows all all over the world so um and we do that generally in conjunction
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with army painters so we're really super friendly with those guys um so yeah we'll we'll we'll see an awful lot of
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love for you know minis of people can just sit down and grab and paint so that's probably an angle that we're
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going to go down as well again standing on the shoulder of Jo someone's already had this brilliant idea we think it's
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great we're going to do the same thing absolutely right yeah well it's it's it's it's almost a no-brainer to do it
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is yeah yeah so with the sorry we going there you go cool so um when you said
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earlier like the characteristics P3 great for like your wet blending and and and that kind of thing
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um getting into I guess you know some specifics why why is that what is it
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about the paint that that makes it so great for blending so I think there's a couple of things that that tie into that
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so one one is consistency yeah and uh P3 is is a creamy consistency now there are
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other creamy paints on the market um but then so then it comes on to brush feel
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so it's how it feels as it coming off the brush so if you take uh a P3 paint
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which has a creamy consistency and uh say like a fanatic paint that also has a cream creamy consistency Pro acry yeah
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they will feel different com on off the brush all three of them will feel different so um one of them uh will is
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is quite kind of heavy and and quite sticky like The Fanatic paint is quite quite sticky which is great because you
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get great coverage you get great brush application you don't have to overwork the surface but it does mean the
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sacrifice for that is then workability yeah you got to be wet Edge wet Edge wet Edge wet Edge no so you look at Pro
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acril again Pro acril another paint That's well known for his coverage super matte finish but with matte finish
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becomes that U short of working time and that window uh because essentially the minute you put paint onto a surface the
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pigment is trying to adere to the surface right so so is how long does it take for the pigment to adere to the
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surface is essentially your working time so with P3 you have the same creamy consistency you apply it for me it feels
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nice coming off the brush it's a little bit Goldilocks it's kind of neither this or that it's nicely in the middle um but
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as it comes on because of the the tweaks that we've made to the so we we put a new formula together and it was great it
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did all the like the you know the heavy pigment load the the the saturation like the coverage was there but the uh the
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drying window just suddenly went CH down to zero and and now it was it lost its workability so then we had to go back
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start building in the workability um and it's like a game of wacka so you you tweak something two
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things pop up you push them down another thing pops up and you and it's just finding that balance so the P3 paint
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that we've got behaves in the in in an almost identical fashion to the old P3
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paint in terms of you put it on you have a really nice working window um the paint is grippy enough for you to do
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Edge highlights um you can use it Uno looted out of the pot um so you've got
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like this nice thick paint when when you want those kind of applications like Edge highlighting and things like that
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but then if you want to go into layering it can take a little bit of water to just loosen it up that's your base coating and then if you want to go into
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real translucent layers you can then knock it down again and again and again and I've taken it all the way down to
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paint water for like the thinnest of glazes so the pigment holds up at all stages of dilution yeah so it really
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lends itself to the modern painting Styles which is you know if you're looking at high-end painting it's
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stipple glazing is is like the real highend painting style so it can do that
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um but I think the the best painting style for for 80% of the people out there is is going to be uh layered
21:55
layering so translucency is really important work ability is really important for layering so you can go in
22:02
layer it on you you know depending on the the amount of Courage I'm someone who likes to build opacity through
22:07
layers rather than Straight Out The Gate yeah so if I'm painting a cloth I will
22:13
kind of put my first layer on and I I like building a lot of texture in so I'll paint a bit of a scratchy layer
22:18
later dry building another scratchy layer but I'm just making that I'm overlapping on the bits where I want the highlights to be they sketching it in
22:26
kind of yeah you end up sketching and then and then you can finish off with like a nice glaze you know a glaze
22:32
just Haron harmonizes over the top and you end up in in a fraction of the time something that looks pretty decent so
22:38
you've talked about consistency but as I still understand it like am I right that you cannot have a
22:44
fully consistent range cuz things like your your warm colors your oranges your yellows your your bright Reds are going
22:51
to be generally more poor poorer coverage due to the pigment that's in them versus your blues for ex your pure
22:57
Blues like there's still going to be a bit of balance there you're exactly right yeah no so the only way you could do that is
23:04
if every color was the same yes right so because pigments do behave differently so what we've uh what we've needed to do
23:12
is look at the base that we're using yeah uh so essentially every paint is a mixture of a base a binder and a pigment
23:19
uh and then there's a few other doodads that you put in like kind of flow and and you know dry in time extended and
23:26
stuff like that um but the base is used for different types of
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pigments so for example in uh the new P3 formula the lighter colors we've put in
23:37
that uses a white base so that gives you the better coverage yeah uh and is also able to kind of carry like a like a
23:44
heavier pigment load of the lighter pigments yeah whereas the darker pigments which are heavier don't need
23:50
that so they're on a clear base because they already have all the help that they need and actually what you don't want to do is put a white base in with your dark
23:57
cuz that's how you pass things and and you you lose a lot of the saturation they did that recently squidmar did a
24:03
video on it with Andy W from court of paint so citadel's colors have changed
24:09
and they've put more white in so that the coverage is better it makes sense
24:14
it's easier but they've lost vibrancy I feel like a trend in in the miniature paint industry at the minute is going
24:21
for coverage is it it like is it for new painters I can imagine that's incredibly
24:27
useful I you can on the table quicker well it is
24:32
because I think and this this is something I don't think people talk about a lot which is and we've all been
24:38
on online and seen people going oh you know give me some feedback on this mini and and they put something up the first
24:43
thing someone says all thin your paint yeah right it's the most common bit of feedback but actually what they're not
24:49
explaining to that person cuz that person is like okay well I thin my paint then it write down and it still looks like this what's going on I can't thin
24:55
it anymore it's just you know what down the brush well what generally when you look at a miniature where someone's
25:01
feedback is thin your pain is this because they can see visible visible brush Strokes in the surface of the
25:06
paint yeah that only happens when you overwork your paint yeah so if you paint on and leave it the paint is designed to
25:15
settle it's a liquid it finds its own level and the pigment starts to drop right how many times have you painted a
25:21
surface you've been impatient you've gone in with the next one and you've peeled a little bit off we we all do it you know so so
25:28
essentially what for the new for a new player and experienced players because we still do it that's what's happening
25:34
is the the texture into the paint is coming because you're overworking It generally you overwork it because the coverage isn't great yeah therefore most
25:42
people are saying right if you increase the coverage new painters and you know intermediate painters won't need to
25:47
overwork the paint so much you get better results so and and it's true you generally will get better results with
25:52
it now you there is a sacrifice as with everything you're going to lose for coverage you get more titanium white
25:59
into the mix more titanium white in the more desaturated the color becomes um so
26:05
yeah so so is uh is finding the balance and and I think it's it's determining where you want your paint to exist in
26:11
the market and and and messaging that to painters so they can make an educ an
26:17
educated Choice yeah so another good example is is you know one thing that P3
26:22
has always been is uh is a slightly satin finish so it's not full satin but
26:27
it's it's you know two or three notches up from the current um the current
26:32
Baseline started by scale 75 and then Pro acril most recently it's the flattest mat that you've ever seen in
26:38
your life and it's and it's great and and we all feel like you know master painters when we use it for the first
26:44
time you go oh well cuz as it as it flattens down it's almost like it Blends as it dries you're like oh you know how
26:52
smart M but then you realize oh actually I can't get like enough like um value shift now because it's as it dries it's
26:59
matting out and it's just sort of blending in so I now need to go in again oh it's dry and it's BL and you know and
27:05
it just it ends up being quite um in terms of a value quite
27:10
consistent um and but that's also part of the property of when a paint dri matte it automatically desaturates just
27:18
because of the way the matte surface reflects the light yeah yeah so sort of holds it doesn't it on the on the
27:23
texture so it looks lighter cuz of Yeah so basically a matte surface um is uh
27:31
stop me if this is if you already know this or I'm being too technical so Mass surface is essentially um very very
27:38
rough yeah yeah so as the light hits it the light is um reflected in multiple directions and it's known as a diffuse
27:45
reflection whereas if you go for the other end of the extreme a gloss surface gloss surface is very smooth therefore
27:51
the light is going to react yeah in exactly the same way that's how you end up with more of what's like a specular
27:57
highlight and that makes the color because the light is coming into your eyes from one angle rather than from a
28:03
multiple angles you get the full effect of what that color is so it looks more saturated oh I like that I didn't I
28:10
wasn't aware of that yeah so if you want a more saturated color tiny little bit of satin in it or a little bit of gloss varnish just mixed in the paint will
28:16
actually punch it up a little bit I wonder what but now you think about it like things like Val's game color range are generally more a bit more glossy
28:23
than than Matt and yeah that's probably why but like I think the thing you said really key and I think perfect timing
28:30
for people like squidmar and Andy to do that video to start talking about the hey why in your pain is desaturate
28:37
desaturating your things guys if you want vibrant things cuz for years all I've heard online YouTuber painters talk
28:45
about is like oh you want more contrast you want you want dark to light contrast you want temperature contrast you want
28:51
texture contrast and you want like is it value or hue contrast like really really
28:57
push vibrancy of those colors against dull colors makes them pop like a vivid
29:02
red against a deep green boom almost blows your eyes with color and and all
29:08
these companies now are heading more towards this easy coverage one coat yep great okay like you say it's good when
29:15
you get it down you go oh I'm a great painter cuz I've done this but it is also limited by that flatness and almost
29:22
that matness and that desaturation yeah the color better might be easier but you also not going to win you a golden demon
29:29
or or equivalent at the end of the day because you've lost so much color value and saturation in that so people
29:36
actually coming out with paints going well actually this is what paint does and educating people is probably to more
29:41
people's benefit and yeah yeah and the other thing is it's usability as well is is a is a satin paint is naturally a
29:48
little bit more resistant than a than a mat paint mat paints are just a little bit more fragile just gives you a bit
29:54
more protection so and again it depends on on what your pain style is now I
29:59
think that 80% of the world should paint layered with a you know and use a wash
30:04
early on yeah so start dark maybe as ziol get your lay get your base color and your first layer on then put a
30:11
gentle wash over the top that gives you a nice little bit of dark lining around all the detail and then you can go in and go go to town on however far you
30:18
want to finish it off so if you've got a satin paint the the wash actually moves
30:23
into the recesses a little bit more easily the paints a little bit more resistant so if you mess it you can go in and kind of scrub it a little bit
30:29
whereas sometimes with these you know and i' I use pril I use you know scale 75 you just have to be a little bit more
30:36
careful with those about how you work the surface and sometimes if you if you aren't washing in the right way you can
30:42
stain the surface a little bit because and then you try and kind of clean it up and you can get into all sorts of Mets
30:48
so yeah no I've done it myself numerous like they they're they're good for coverage but also unforgiving so like
30:53
you say everything's got to be a balance hasn't it and the amount you do of something you lose somewhere else and vice versa
31:00
so I think that's it it's about communicating to people right these are the paints for this and why they are for
31:06
this and if people knew more about what the paints were for and how to and why to apply them in that way people might
31:13
be able to make better choices about what they purchased at the end I think that was that was something that I was conscious of and it you know and it was
31:21
it was quite a pressure really cuz you know there are dozens and dozens if not no actually there's hundreds of painters
31:27
far more more talented than I am way more experienced way better than I am and they have this kind of like fondness
31:32
for P3 um and you know I've I talk to a lot of painters I'm I'm lucky to kind of
31:38
be friends with with a with a few of them and just talk professionally with a whole bunch more yeah um and and we kind
31:44
of talk about what they're looking for from a paint now but what they're looking for from a paint is not the same
31:50
as as what uh you know a beginner or an intermediate style painter is looking for so that's squar video um they they
31:58
said it in improves the coverage they don't like the lack of saturation but
32:04
they recognize that it actually makes the paint easier to use so they can understand why it's happening so what a
32:10
what an advanced painter on versus what of you know the newer painter wants is two different things so one of the
32:17
pressures with with the P3 paint range is I don't want the experienced painters
32:23
to not get a paint that that is the same as what they remember it but need to
32:28
increase the the accessibility for people who are you know new to War Machine new to you know new to gaming in
32:34
general looking for you know a really reliable paint range and you know I was chatting with um John from uh from NJ on
32:41
and he he kind of he described it to me as like an aspirational goal which was you know you really want to create a
32:47
paint range that someone can start with and the paint will never be the limit to their to their output so you want to
32:54
paint that will grow with someone all the way up to however far they want to push their painting you know if they
32:59
want to go golden Demon Slayer sword great you want to paint that can kind of go go with them that full distance I'm
33:05
like thanks John easy to say yes yeah that was 6 months ago and I had
33:11
a lot more hair back then but bless he's killing it at the moment
33:17
as well isn't he after his golden demon was aw yeah his content's so good oh it
33:23
really is yeah love him I was speaking of the squid Mall video though so I saw that and um it's funny how like Serendipity
33:31
works like the timing of I saw that video and then I think it was the following week I was at the factory to do a like a paint testing day yeah and
33:38
uh so that was in my mind's eye uh and in the P3 uh color range there's a there's a color called umber which is
33:45
it's quite a cold Brown um but it's it's betwix and between it's neither cold
33:52
dark brown or or warm rich brown it's kind of a bit half and half and I think
33:57
it I think it almost Falls between two stalls so I was like okay there's an opportunity here so we were tweaking I
34:02
said right let's get umber where where we want it to be so we've got that there I'm like can you now do me another one
34:08
and punch up you know and I and I'm recreating like rhinox hiide in my head
34:14
um and I'm kind of like push the push the red push this push that and we pushed it and push push it and now we've got like this super rich vibrant
34:21
saturated like red Brown that is is yeah it's like R oxide on steroids it's
34:26
unbelievably good yeah a bigor oh yeah me too yeah I love it
34:32
absolutely love it so when I saw that video cuz I I was like I was like oh God so I'm not quite as bad as like you know
34:38
James at C Studios is he's he's he's a nightmare like he hears that valo are changing a color formulation so we just
34:44
go out and buy like a thousand bottles of like black paint so he never runs out oh he is so he's he's obsessed when I
34:50
first met him this was nearly 10 years ago he was like if anyone like he sat down or went I learned to paint at a
34:56
Siege Studios painting course and he almost sat us down and for the first hour kind of indoctrinated us and said
35:02
if anyone finds any blood angels red from the '90s send it to me and otherwise no more course like it's his
35:09
own yeah and he's he's that obsessed with that color and then he sent me a photo oh was a couple of years back and
35:15
he's just got this little box it's an old GW box that's got loads of like halfed blood angels red in but it was
35:22
like blood angels Red's a difficult one cuz I I tried a version of it I've got an original
35:28
um and recently I I went to do a review for a company called War colors who do did Nostalgia 96 paints right and it was
35:36
like oh like their pots their pot design was nice wasn't oh yeah yeah yeah they were it was very yeah this isn't ripping
35:43
off 9s Citadel at all um but it is um but yeah there were really nice parts
35:48
and and good things and it was like right this is everything it's the feel and it's this and I compared it to my
35:53
old bottle which I've poured into a dropper bottle just to keep it safe stupid idea drop a bottles dry out turns
35:59
out at least the bot are the ones I've got so I compared it to some blood angels red and I'm like yeah it is just
36:04
as good but the coverage isn't modern um and it's kind of like and as
36:10
much as there was that Nostalgia there like everyone had the Nostalgia when I got back into the hobby 10 years ago the
36:16
paint was still in that early stage of Citadel have changed I I prefer the old colors and people were angrily after the
36:23
old colors but when you actually paint with them it's like I know that blood ain't mist and red isn't blood angels
36:28
red but God mist and red is so much easier to use just yeah like and it's
36:34
like you can go back to that so you're right James it is a great and a very vibrant red and if you know what you're
36:39
doing and you know what you want and you want that rich color fine but it's difficult so it's good to hear that you're you're trying to close the gap
36:47
but not fully right and and and just go like boom everything's coverage now we're going to color match it it you
36:54
know we've got that things have modernized we do need to get to that point where we've steep forward with the range but also we keep it it's it's also
37:02
important it's important from a you know and I hate to make it kind of commercial but it it's important from a marketing
37:07
sense we need to be able to say this is why you as a painter should think about this paint range yeah this is the
37:14
segment that that you know if you want a paint that behaves in this way have a look at this yeah right if you want
37:19
paint that has you know um the sole focus is coverage and and ease of use
37:24
there are other pain ragers that do that now what's what's becomes more complicated is we we recognize that
37:32
modern painters want the coverage but they want the workability as well as they get better at painting they're going to want more workability sacrifice
37:39
of coverage so you know it's it's it's that kind of you know two thing coats it's great as a as a as a Spiel yeah but
37:47
for some painters you only need one coat and for other painters you know you look at some of the videos they're like you
37:52
know doing a thousand codes before they kind of got it where they want so um
37:58
for me it's always been working out what is the message that we want to say about this and then making sure that the range
38:06
punches at its weight for everything but does a couple of things absolutely brilliantly so it's uh is a wonderful
38:14
paint the metallics that we've got are just astonishingly good I've always loved the P3 metallics like they are
38:20
they are so we've knocked them up another like probably another 15 notches they they're unbelievable yeah so we how
38:26
how does one go about knocking up a paint 15 notches ah so uh well you again
38:32
you stand on the shoulder of a giant so we work closely with a factory and we're like tell tell us about you know what's what's been changing in in the world of
38:38
metallics um so historically and back in the day uh metallics all used the mic
38:44
flake um and mic flake is um essentially quite quite a largish flake but it's
38:50
quite reflective that's where you get that metallic Sheen from it's not actually bits of metal that you kind of putting down um and essentially in the
38:57
paint there will be a a dye and a pigment and that will as it kind of lays onto the surface will tint the
39:04
microflake this that's going onto the surface so that's the old Tech cuz I I'm a big fan of the metal color range from
39:13
valo I I use those quite a lot they're gold standard if if you put those in I I
39:18
use them in like a weld dry palette and if you leave them they separate out so they look silver and you mix it and
39:25
you're like oh it's actually gold or oh it's actually exactly is that that sort of older technology or no so that's new
39:31
technology so that's uh that's going to they use a mix I believe of of mic and
39:36
aluminium flakes right so aluminium flakes so aluminium is an actual metal so you get the reflective property from
39:42
it yeah it's lighter um so you that changes the behavior of the paint so it
39:48
makes it atomized for an airbrush a little bit more easily which is where the Vallejo paints um really Excel um
39:54
but again it's uh it it's kind of what you gain from the for the smaller
40:00
lighter flake that you get with aluminium you lose because of the the bigger more reflective micro flakes so
40:07
it's it's finding a kind of a balance so for example Army painter uh use a proprietary blend of the two so it's a
40:13
mix of of micro and aluminium yeah uh what we're actually using um is pure
40:19
aluminium flake but it's dyed aluminium so the color is in the actual flake not in the in the formula oh brilliant
40:26
interesting yeah yeah that that that's actually potentially not just cool that's
40:32
gamechanging like so we've talked about the valo metallics and and I love for
40:38
for not so much for blending I struggle to blend with them but like the ever tried oh yeah no so if you airbrush it's
40:45
fine but there's just not that much there's like 15 or so colors in the range and they're all the same bloody
40:50
silver apart from two of them but when when you paint with them so you take the gold or the copper or bronze copper
40:57
and then if you lift it up with the with the paintbrush and then you apply it to some tissue all of the medium with the
41:04
color in it is sucked out leaving you with basically just silver again so it's
41:10
kind of almost useless um but Marco frone who we talk of often because we
41:15
love him has found a way of mixing them with liquidx inks and various inks and
41:22
then you get a colored version but again it still suffers with that so he's just he's pimping the same method he he's
41:28
making the color around it that color he not dying the pigment slightly
41:33
marginally dulls the reflectiveness but you've actually covered colored the
41:40
flake which if I'm right not me the factory FL super
41:46
smart I would love to take credit for mod each individual separately and that's the
41:53
level of detail we'll go to yeah but but but based on that that means you're going to to not be not only be able to
42:00
well you've delivered what I've wanted for years one I would expect a wider variety of colors not just Silvers but
42:07
also you're going to keep that reflectivity up whilst still coloring oh I'm excited for them and and what's cool
42:14
about it and it certainly wouldn't translate into this but maybe I'll send you some pictures and you can Boll it or something later but um because the the
42:21
flake has the color you can I can now dilute it right down so you you know put
42:26
a black glove on you put a SPL on your back and you kind of water it down you can actually see the flakes dancing around it's quite
42:33
it's quite a nice way of of put and seeing how paint behaves when you're pushing around with your brush but
42:38
you're actually able to to take it quite diluted apply it to a surface and then
42:43
you end up with these still retaining the color but the flakes are now more disperate so they settle down you can do
42:50
some really wonderful weathering um it really effortlessly so you could talking about blending and highlighting of
42:56
actual metallics it's a bit tough because you can't actually dilute it down so when when you can dilute it down
43:02
but without losing the color identity it makes life a lot easier yeah so I'm pretty excited about I'm happy yeah yeah
43:09
so one one P3 metallics please all right so so one yeah um how if like again if you
43:19
can sort of say or whatever how how many sort of metals do you think you'll be you'll be sort of covering silver and
43:26
gold gun metal Copper Brass maybe or something like that like they're like the Staples generally I think AR
43:32
typically I don't I mean I don't think you need bucket load as Marco foron shows if you want a different color you
43:38
can you can tint either at the application or you can just glaze afterwards to kind of change like the
43:43
color of it or my preferred method is is get the color variation in the undertones and then put the metallic
43:50
paint over the top okay and then you get the difference in the in the in the color that way yeah um so I I think uh
43:57
really you need three silver three gold three brass three copper and you pretty much covered pretty much everything you
44:03
really need to yeah there will be a couple that will be then um uh depend it
44:10
becomes easy of use after that point so if you want say like a decayed metal like that you know Wonderful scale 75
44:16
you can actually do that by grabbing a little bit of uh RH oxide or the equivalent thereof and just mixing that
44:22
in with your silver that that kind of gives you that kind or sorry in with your gold that gives you that kind of Knocked Down sort of flattened off gold
44:30
effect or you can buy a pre-made pot of decayed gold so it becomes a lot more
44:35
kind of ease of ease of use quality of Lifestyle options at that point in time now we do have um a color um who in a
44:44
stunning display of me being old I've forgotten their name instantly the minute I think of it which is um like a
44:50
really dark Rich it's almost like a Timbits there's a there's a black
44:55
equivalent of that so where Timbits is like a dark desaturated um kind of base for Golden copper we've done one called
45:02
boiler black which is a really dark black blue based um silver um the the if
45:09
you kind of just dry brush it on over over black looks like a graphite pencile which is like really nice yeah really
45:15
good first layer um ink wash over the top Edge highlight job done um so I
45:20
think the there a long shaggy dog story to ask you a question around about 12 to 15 metallic paints I think he's probably
45:27
The Sweet Spot are you um sorry and this is why I kept grabbing my phone cuz I actually reviewed the P3 paints about
45:33
five or six years ago the original R that's the I love them that's the metallics really good coverage I really
45:40
like the metallics like for decent coverage but what I really liked is there was whatever that color is there
45:46
and you can't see oh is it okay so that and I couldn't see that cuz I was like my the images on my site are so low res
45:54
that you can't see the names of the colors and I'm like okay I need to yeah that'll be boiler black yeah and I also
45:59
need to upres my images but yeah so um that I absolutely loved that as a base
46:06
for silver I was like oh that goes straight on and then you just put the silver on on top of it which was whatever that one was which was still a
46:12
dark silver but PL still maybe I so are you still are you looking to because
46:19
these weren't aluminium back in the day were they these were like a mic are you looking to similarly similar
46:27
are you looking to emulate those kind of earlier P3 colors or maybe going your
46:32
own way yeah so so I think it's a mix is the answer and and it's in it's situational dependent on the paint so
46:39
there are some paints where I think there is such a fondness for the color M
46:45
um for good reason yeah I don't want to mess with that so cold black I want to get as close as humanly possible to the
46:52
OG C for example there are other colors that I think would actually benefit from
46:57
a a little bit more punch the um wber is a good example of punching a little bit of red into it actually gives it a bit
47:04
of saturation and a bit of life to it um now the question will be can I can I
47:10
create enough of a differential between OG Umber and the new super red kind of
47:16
rhinodon hide let's call it um y naely decided just random just randomly yeah
47:23
um to to Warrant two paints or do we just say right well we like this color
47:28
this now color is now that color that's that's up for grabs at the moment so that's literally the stage that we're at
47:34
is where we fine-tuning but because we're going to take it to crowdfunding one of the things that we've always done
47:40
with every crowdfunding project that stain for has done is is not go to the audience with a fully finished project
47:47
yeah what we've always liked is leaving that last little bit where we're polishing and tweaking because we can
47:52
then listen to feedback we can load for people they love what ideas they have and we can can start folding that in so
47:58
you know obviously for a board game and an RPG the ideas are more about the gameplay and would it be cool if you
48:04
know whereas with the paint it's well look we we'll Discover it but what I'm hoping to do is get engaged with some
48:10
conversations with the community talk to them about what they love about P3 what they hope is going to happen with it so
48:15
we've reserved a you know a period of time after the crowdfunding campaign finishes and and I mean a good time for
48:21
us to make sure that um we we're able to listen to the ideas feedback and make sure that you know we we're cementing
48:28
the right things in place so when's that going to go live I had a feeling you'd
48:33
ask me that I don't know I I I wear a white lab Co and kind of mess about a paint all day when is it
48:40
September September September yeah middle of September than God yeah soon
48:45
yeah really soon yeah yeah I may will be up on oh there you go all right okay so
48:52
we can link to so we'll we can have a link to uh go and check out the
48:58
keep us in the loop on that cuz I hope it be interesting to see how that goes just one more thing like you said
49:03
obviously getting Community feedback are you working with any professional painter I mean I'm not asking if you are
49:09
don't name names but if you can't um so you're working with some professional painters and by professional I mean
49:14
people who get paid to yeah I've got an ebay store
49:19
if it says propain yeah yeah yeah I always believe they are you yeah uh so
49:25
I'm working with uh um I'm working closely with two people um uh both sides
49:31
of the pond so someone who has a you know North American kind of viewpoint and the painting scene there and and
49:37
someone who's more European based um so they're they're the people that I get to
49:42
work with kind of very closely and and get feedback from and and their thought process but because painters we quite
49:49
close nit everyone knows someone and and you know everyone knows everyone so there's an awful lot of kind of wider
49:55
net casting to make sure that we're talking to the right people to get you know lots of input on it so it's it's
50:01
been quite important to me to make sure that I don't go solo into a bunker and
50:06
come out with this amazing thing it's more that you know this is built by a village you know to to kind of make sure
50:13
that we are recreating the same that same feel um but also improve the accessibility for new painters and also
50:20
create a paint that then will allow you to kind of grow your painting you know your painting Talent with an carry you
50:26
all the way through well it won't carry you you have to do all the hard work the paint's just there yeah yeah but you know what I'm glad that it's it's been
50:34
rescued good nice too I always remember seeing out there and like I say I think I I realized I actually also own h a
50:42
flesh club that I can't remember the name of but um I'm glad to see that you've yeah and it's and I think it the
50:48
nice thing as well as I think for the people that have I've Loved war machine I think there's a reassurance to think
50:54
that it's on its way back I think as well surely I think so and I think one of the things that surprised us because
51:00
we did it naturally when we when we uh announced War Machine uh one of the
51:05
things that we were really Keen to do was was to show painted minis show get minis being played in in situ yeah um
51:14
and what we you know and we just want to do because that was kind of what you always did and you know it's what certainly what Games Workshop does most
51:19
of the time you know and if if and if it's good enough for them then it's certainly something we should look at ourselves is it something we should do
51:25
as well and painting Min just look awesome um but one of the bits of feedback that we got was was people
51:31
being so excited to see painted minis because I think with a digital pipeline
51:36
it's very easy to fall into the the Trap it's quite seductive to just show a render and just show you know a
51:42
turntable and you know just like an ambient Lighting on it and showing an natural mini that's been printed off and
51:47
painted and and in situ so I think I think that accidentally was a really
51:53
smart idea I mean I wish I could say yeah I knew that was happen we just did it because we thought it was the right
51:58
thing to do and it turned out to be a really really cool idea and I think having the it shows how important then
52:05
the that paint range is going to be because people actually want their minis to be painted and and therefore it's
52:11
going to be quite a harmonious product to go with like the core the core war game brilant yeah with with the
52:19
um one of the the memorable things and I have to say for all of my faults which there are many one of them is having not
52:26
used P3 paints previously but I know the pot yes um and and I think of P3 I think
52:34
the circle like the logo I feel like is rememberable but the pot is is is particularly will that stay or will they
52:42
go into drop that's a great question so this may or may not translate across the
52:47
Atlantic but I tend to answer this with a brexit analogy now I don't particularly care which way people voted
52:54
on brexit what I brought you to well I professionally I don't care personally I
52:59
care very deeply and uh I kind of wish it had gone a different way but then I think that's true for almost everyone in
53:06
the UK whether you voted yes or no everyone wishes that it'd gone a different way and the reason is is
53:12
brexit was never defined so when we get a lot of feedback saying drop a bottles drop a bottles no one actually says I
53:19
specifically want the AK third gen style bottle or I want the pro acril style bottle or I want the two thing coat
53:25
style bottle so the danger of us going yes droper balls wo look at those babies
53:30
they're going to go well that's not the droper B I wanted yeah you get your subdivision so so there's so there's an
53:35
issue with with that with the dropper bottles that being said there are some dropper bottles that I I like um but you
53:43
go back to the other the other route and and you mentioned it just a second ago turns out drop a balls dry out and nozle
53:49
gets blocked if you want to put a mixing ball in the mixing ball gets in the way of the nozzle you squeeze too hard the whole thing explodes the ball goes off
53:55
Ricochet is off the wall so so there's there's drawbacks to dropper bottles but there is ease of use
54:01
you know and if you're one of those people I am not who a bit weird and clean their nozzle every time properly and make sure the lids are screwed I
54:08
mean I don't know who does that but sure I can understand it they exist yeah whereas the the original pot as you were
54:15
saying has Brand recognition and and if you talk to someone like James who who
54:20
collects old paints he will tell you that that style of paint pot keeps the paint mint it's like Time Capsule so you
54:28
can buy I've got P3 paints at home that are 10 years old yeah me too shake them up take the like the rip cord off open
54:35
it up and it's the same as the day it was made so those paint pots are designed to create a vacuum seal and
54:42
they keep your paint in absolutely pristine condition and if you have to just do a little wipe every now and then
54:47
just to keep it clean if you've if you've over you over opened it well you know you have to do that with any type
54:53
of pot that you got yeah so I think so the answer is undecided now what we
54:59
probably will do at the kickstar is maybe offer both oh and then we'll see what people
55:05
like what we take to retail is TBD okay I like the OG pots
55:11
personally talk about the OG pots is you know we had Tom hibbit on the show and
55:17
he spoke extensively about why games workshops stay with what they have instead of a drop a Bott and one of the
55:24
things he mentioned is just brand record recognition it's a thing people know what it is and how it looks and it's as
55:30
simple as that you know anybody's paint that is in a droper bottle looks very very similar to any other brand that is
55:37
in a drop a bottle and it's slightly weird as well is it's like the the size of shaping now most paints come in like
55:44
18 mil some of them are a little bit tight and they come in 16 mil but you know they most of
55:50
them most of them are around about 18 mil but if you look at a P3 18 mil pot
55:56
it just somehow looks bigger and I think it's it's slightly shorter and slightly slightly wider isn't it so it just looks
56:03
like you're getting more paint um so there's a yeah there's the degree of branding and shelf you know shelf
56:08
presence and stuff like that that needs to be considered when when it comes to it but but my favorite Epiphany was when
56:14
I I hit upon the brexit analogy when it comes to drop off because it is by far and away the most popular question that
56:19
we get asked which is you know is it going to be dropper bottles or not and if you don't do dropper bottles you're crazy but then I think if you're that
56:25
way and on dropper bottles we're all used to just decanting Citadel paints into a dropper bottle videos on YouTube
56:32
showing you how to do it I I tried it I tried it once or twice and vowed that I
56:38
would never do it again I I did every cadel pain I ID I know I did it with
56:43
every Citadel paint it was one of my first ever blog posts it's what blew up F hammer.com in back in the day and I I
56:51
don't regret it but I'd never do it again I don't do it with I don't know if it's worth it or not the only time I do
56:57
it is if it's paint I use a lot of yeah so all of my Browns like so my brown
57:02
recipe is all in drop balls cuz they're just easy to leave on my desk and they're always there um and sometimes
57:08
you do just want to add just a tiny little drop yeah but most of the times I I deant in is if I'm making a custom mix
57:15
yeah so like I did um like dur dur duralum aluminum yeah half and half with
57:21
iron Warriors have you heard of that so you get the valo metal color dur luminum
57:27
dur aluminium that one y half and half of like iron Warriors Warriors Warriors
57:32
based from GW darker Sil you get like the ease of coverage from like the application from the metal cover but you
57:39
get like a really rich depth from never thought mix in a metallic with a metallic I have done it oh um fairly
57:47
recently cuz I uh on I think potentially on some some of those things where I
57:52
wanted oh no it was some death card I painted I wanted that coppery but I like cuz I couldn't find it in the
58:00
big metal color pots so I just took like the uh I don't know like steel or
58:05
something but then mix the uh the brass into it and it work pretty well hey there you go if you're going to follow
58:11
look a Marco recipe just just mix it up pot and got it ready to
58:16
go um do you think I see um cuz my my introduction to the world of miniature
58:23
painting is through Games Workshop like my my brain works in Citadel paints and
58:28
I see another red and I'm like well is that miston red or is it like that the that kind of thing um and I always find
58:35
like the the color charts and stuff quite quite handy I feel like I'm moving away from it but yeah but you think
58:41
about it like cuz I've used those color charts so you know you get your big box of too thing coats and it has a nice
58:47
color chart and it just tells you that guess what there's a finite number of colors under under the under the sun is
58:54
there they're all you know so and and it turns out the the war games minis need
58:59
certain kind of colors you need a warm rich brown you need you know a desaturated green you need a vibrant you
59:05
know saturated green we all need the same kind of thing so it is I think most
59:10
important thing about paint is is the behavior in it in it matching your painting style um and what works for one
59:17
person wouldn't necessarily work for someone else um you know the weirdly like the feel of the paint coming off
59:23
the brush is quite a personal thing as well depends on how how comfortable you are with how loaded your brush is and
59:29
how much you know how much you've diluted the paint and and how how big your brush Strokes are and are you a
59:34
horizontal guy or a top down guy or a tip guy is like you know there's a million different ways of painting a
59:40
mini but the colors the colors are the colors right and and you could pick any color from
59:46
any range and probably find something quite similar in other ranges except P three paints there are about five colors
59:51
you no there are some colors in every range
59:56
yes that you just think that is the tip top version of that color it's not that there is a unique color it's that's just
1:00:03
the best version of that color so you know you take some of the paint R you know some of the paints in P3 cold black
1:00:09
is just a the tip top of that and and G GW copied it with it is it
1:00:16
drei so it's that kind of color I think um procil actually do a cold black as
1:00:22
well yes they do yeah yeah so having tried them all my personal take is the p31 is the is the granddaddy of them all
1:00:29
so yeah um but it doesn't mean that it's the only one of that kind of that type of color yeah excellent because that was
1:00:36
a uh yeah one of our patrons said it would be interesting if they did a color match chart for the range uh versus the
1:00:43
five main producers in the space they have to decide who those five are
1:00:49
yeah P3 Pro crew um it's was I I go Citadel Army painter
1:00:58
AK in the monument Monument yeah yeah that's it's not it's not GRE world is it
1:01:04
butu well in there Citadel Army painter who else did we say Pro AK akill sorry
1:01:14
oh you got scale 75 as well yeah scale 75 AK and P3 yeah yeah they're the top
1:01:20
five how many fingers have you got one hand you know what too many I was I was my parents were cousins
1:01:29
so I'm sorry I I I interrupted your uh your answer um did you I think so no you
1:01:36
didn't question you did I said what did I say so he said be interested if they did a color match chart for the range
1:01:42
versus the five main producers I was going to say there's there's an interesting kind of um legality there
1:01:49
which which oh really we probably couldn't show someone else's product and
1:01:54
go is like this because it's their IP and their it's their copyright so we can't do that so I
1:02:02
don't so I don't think it's something that we could do but it's certainly something that you to get a member of your communi some them would do it yeah
1:02:09
exactly maybe guide them as to what they might want to S well you couldn't you couldn't guide them but I'm sure you
1:02:15
could offer help if they asked but yeah but no you're right that's interesting because I believe other rangers do it I'm
1:02:21
sure I'm sure I've seen some official ones of them
1:02:26
the color yeah you can say the name of it that's you can't I'm assuming you
1:02:32
can't copyright cmk like Hugh and go this is
1:02:38
why GD in a lot of places give them funky names no one else could have so
1:02:43
because I know I know tooth and coats um they oh
1:02:49
they no you do get a post and I this is a bit I'm happy to be wrong about but I
1:02:55
get the impression that they have taken the the existing GW colors that
1:03:01
everybody knows made their version of improvements to them and then have gone Circo silver is this this red is misten
1:03:10
red and and you can directly compare them I think they're more similar too where where they've really rubbed it in
1:03:16
is where they've gone with white star like that that's brilliant I think what
1:03:21
you were saying before like as I've spent more time in painting and and more time watching Marco's
1:03:29
videos and no longer look at and weirdly I've started doing a lot of coloring in with alcohol markers as well CU it's I
1:03:35
find it as a good exercise for painting and just color blending and it's faster um is I've stopped thinking about things
1:03:41
as the Fist and red White Scar R it's like I need a deep reddish brown I need
1:03:47
this and and when you the more you look at the color wheel and the more you kind of think right if I add white it white
1:03:52
black white or gray it desaturates it if I add more of it increases the vibrancy and you start forgetting about what
1:03:59
those different color names are trying to follow an exact recipe exactly the more you can be like because I could paint a blood angel with mist and red or
1:04:06
bald pyro red or whatever red sanguin red or it's it's a red Space Marine and
1:04:13
then you just tweak it from there so um you know sometimes when you get into your Blues like ultramarines like that's
1:04:18
not blue that's pale blue and the more I start thinking like that the more I'm I feel less beholden to with particular I
1:04:26
find those those bits of content more useful when they when the when the you know content creator is talking about
1:04:33
the reasons for why they chose a particular color so you can like zero in on what the properties that they're
1:04:39
trying to get rather than than just giving you the name of a paint yeah cuz any anyone can follow her how to paint
1:04:45
this to varying degrees of success but what I love about and Marco is a great example and and Henry from C of paint as
1:04:52
well um is another great guy good as well from Siege like when he was
1:04:57
teaching me he was like I'm using this because and the more because as you know the more you can make your own decisions
1:05:04
in painting and that's that's what I'm trying to do in here that's proper real education there and then that's why I
1:05:10
think those those channels do really well is cuz they're not they're not just kind of popping up with whatever the
1:05:15
latest GW releases and they're just Hing content that's it yeah yeah so heading towards the end uh we had a few
1:05:21
questions from our patrons so cool uh Phil uh asked about the uh color match
1:05:27
chart and it might be questionable legally so that's a very interesting one
1:05:33
to know if if the companies that do it officially how they can get away with it
1:05:39
yeah I think there's there's definitely some pains in the P3 range that will have a direct correlation but there'll
1:05:44
be others that will just be something stand on their own and I feel like
1:05:50
now if um so so scale 75 decayed metal is a paint that everyone goes oh if you
1:05:57
only have one scale 75 metallic get Tok metal um I I feel like and that's
1:06:03
because there isn't really another brand that do it particularly well like if someone says oh get this ultramarine
1:06:11
blue or this other blue or that blue or or that blue because everyone does it like I think the more unique paints you
1:06:18
have for great uses I think that's potentially with a new paint range better yeah I do think though from a
1:06:24
from a manufact point of view that for every one decayed metal there'll probably be a hundred others that are
1:06:31
quirky and unique and but don't actually kind of catch on and you end up with
1:06:36
just random paints that no one wants yes very good point sometimes it could just be random though couldn't it like you've
1:06:42
got a like like for example guys isn't it it is yeah like look at Slap Chop Slap Chop is a silly word but it hit the
1:06:49
right Vibe at the and it's a technique we've all been doing for years but Rob hit the Right audience at the right time
1:06:55
with the right name boom and it blew up and I think paints probably follow that
1:07:00
to a degree as well yeah I feel like like B Titanium white you know there's a
1:07:05
few YouTubers that did videos about it dirty down rust yeah it it kind of made
1:07:11
a push and people oh my God yeah pale sand yeah definitely um yeah so uh Spen
1:07:18
asks which I feel like we've sort of covered a little bit but it is uh there's he's capitalized there is a lot
1:07:25
lot of paint Brands out there now correct uh what are you planning on doing to make P3 stand out from the
1:07:31
others with the relaunch uh so we're probably going to sponsor a load of professional painters to get tattoos
1:07:37
done oh cool um no so I think I want to be
1:07:44
consistent in in the purpose behind the design and the redesign of the brand um
1:07:50
and really want to emphasize the the heritage of of the paint brand from back
1:07:55
in the day and where it came from and what it's and what it's good at and and if you can explain to someone you know
1:08:02
this is what this paint does this is what it's designed to do this is what it's excellent there you know we could
1:08:08
highlight the things that it's not so strong a but that would be crappy marking so we're not going to do that people can work that out for themselves
1:08:13
quite frankly but we'll talk about if you like any kind of wet blending style approach yeah look at P3 paints see if
1:08:20
it works for you because you know it is one of the best that I've used like
1:08:26
took Rich um uh to like a painting painting day at the factory and he's
1:08:31
he's wet blending two brush blending for the first time ever you know so it's it's kind of got that ease of use it's
1:08:38
got that coverage it's got that ability to kind of mix two paints together on the surface of the model and then the paint just sort of flattens down so we
1:08:45
will highlight the strengths and the reasons why this paint is distinct and different now one of the best things I
1:08:51
think about this whole situation is unlike almost every other pay range in
1:08:56
the market except Citadel this isn't our primary business model this isn't the
1:09:02
thing that upon which our success Falls or or or grows this is a really
1:09:08
important part a supplementary part of our business so what it what that gives us is that luxury to make sure that
1:09:15
we're going for the very best option that we can yeah so we can actually take that extra bit of time or that extra bit
1:09:21
of investment to make sure so it's almost like it's as close to a personal Hobby project as I can ever get a steam Forge
1:09:28
where can really really drill in and make sure it behaves exactly how how we want it to behave and and it's going to
1:09:34
deliver what we say it's going to deliver yeah brilliant um and somebody said uh Tim asks uh what is your color
1:09:42
that comes closest to Classic Citadel goblin Green what to goblin Green yeah
1:09:48
if there is one I reckon it might so in terms of vibrancy we necro Tite green
1:09:55
which is super green but I think now thorwood green is the dark green isn't it Bic Olive I reckon might be the one
1:10:02
okay there we go yeah and then uh Charles coming in with the paint connoisseur's question um what paint
1:10:11
from your range tastes the best so we we work with like uh selas um
1:10:19
fantastic to really help with the flavor notes yeah so yeah yeah you sring them
1:10:25
around the pot yeah yes 2021 great year for paint God it's it's absolutely
1:10:32
non-toxic and I do lick my brush and I don't care what people say yeah yeah how do you spip without licking the
1:10:39
brush we're we're all brush lickers in here I think um I was going to ask a question CU you got so you talked about
1:10:45
like two two brush blending and we talked about two brush of yeah we talked
1:10:51
we talk aluminium I'll stick with that one you say the word we talked about to brush blending the other week and so by
1:10:58
to brush blending nailed it um are we is to brush blending where you apply a
1:11:04
color with a brush then take the second brush as wet and then feather out the edge yeah so it's essentially it's the
1:11:10
same as Feathering it's the same as juicing so these are other names for the same thing yeah so well there're subtly
1:11:17
different so Feathering will be you put the paint down and then Feathering is you'll wash that brush out and then
1:11:22
you'll kind of feather The Edge out right juicing will be you put it down you then suck the juice out and then you
1:11:30
kind of like feather it out two brush blending is you have a clean brush that's damp and then you kind of put the
1:11:36
paint down swap brushes and you feather it and typically you hold it in your teeth so that's how you kind of like
1:11:41
swapping it in and out so it's essentially the same technique if you put a layer down and you just thin The Edge out yeah there you go there go I
1:11:48
didn't realize there were three new on different approaches to all about how you get the clean brush on and where you
1:11:55
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah pretty much cleaned up yeah so swish it suck it or
1:12:01
or just have a clean one yeah so brilliant all right so we stood me in good stad yeah yeah wonderful so I think
1:12:08
that concludes our paint chat that was really say excited for them the best of
1:12:14
luck with the launch for it I'm really looking forward to it and quite excited about it I'm excited and terrified in
1:12:19
equal measure yeah yeah really good you've got sale on the metallics at least I'm I'm having them
1:12:25
want me over I think like the blending is is something that I've only really
1:12:31
been able to achieve with an airbrush so like getting practicing it on a miniature I'm kind of like yeah I think
1:12:36
that's like you know the next place I'd like to go so I feel like yeah for like
1:12:42
a like an intermediate sort of paint um is is like definitely worth So like um
1:12:50
uh Ninja to talk about it quite a bit which is um getting first colors down
1:12:56
and blocking in those first Shadows with with a wet blend is the fastest way to get your volumes in place so it's
1:13:01
definitely worth having having a go out yeah Sensational wonderful thank you very much thank you very much for coming
1:13:07
on apprciate thanks for having me yeah wonderful bye everyone thank you very much bye bye everyone thanks everyone