Up next in 10
Peachy chats about his time being a manager at Games Workshop, both in retail and the army painting team.
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0:00
hi I'm peachy and I'm Jeff we're maybe going on to other names in the future
0:05
which will be space marine sergeant head and space War for upgrade through
0:13
It's gotta look like a mouse yeah it's always a cat noise that was sheer Panic sorry
0:21
[Music] right then so we're back to have another
0:27
little chat aren't we another chat on more deep Downs of peachy yeah yeah oh
0:38
with a lamp
0:43
and maybe a wetsuit wetsuit wetsuit wet suit it's an echo in here
0:50
yeah so we thought we'd have a little bit more of a chat about the Willy Wonka Chocolate Factory that
0:55
is Dave's Direction yeah I suppose it has that five yeah yeah it's full of treats and surprises yeah yeah and an
1:02
evil demon man no that's just a tunnel isn't it with a weird crazy guy yeah that's the one that's the one I remember
1:07
yeah so we touched on last time uh being uh the Derby store and
1:15
eventually run on the zombie store and then moving over into being uh on the army page team and then managing your
1:22
own section within section oh it's your military yeah you can be section Commander
1:29
of a team that would storm the lines of unpainted militaries absolutely it's like I wrote that it did sound like
1:38
it should be on your grave yeah I'm never going to be storming the lines of unpainted militants have you
1:44
seemed like my Aldi bags of life just full of them howdy bags of life that's
1:50
what the other just full of me like for Life they're just Aldi bags of Life they're just full of bits of me like well we all know that if you paint all
1:56
your models you're dying um if that's if that's true I should read
2:03
to the right old age about 190. okay that's good to know yeah so then you went on to Army painter and
2:11
then from uh working on the Army painter team you then went on and then
2:16
you were right there at the very beginning of uh uh of the YouTube painting Wing not quite uh Duncan have
2:22
been doing it for a couple of years before that point oh right okay and then I just tagged on later because it's got border managing so and then he went from
2:29
there but um what what do you think you
2:34
what would you say was when it comes to managing um well that sounds awful but what would
2:40
you say would probably been the high points in the low points of being a manager of Games Workshop I think there was two there was a high point of
2:46
managing the Derby store yeah um because I really enjoyed it because I had a great team I I think this is the
2:52
biggest thing for me is I never expected to see myself as a manager I was always just like happy just to get on do my job
2:58
and every now and again someone like oh you're quite good at that maybe you should look at being a manager and I was like
3:03
I've never really thought about it but then as we touched on the last year I did the management training which is
3:09
quite robust yeah training um scheme if you like which is a shame they don't do it anymore because it made
3:15
some really good managers uh
3:22
so they hire the menager it's a weirdo sometimes yeah sometimes you get like um externals and this is I guess this is
3:29
like a bit of a Prelude before we delve deeply I think because Workshop has
3:34
moved from being a small business to like a larger business yeah I hate to use the word Corporation but it is it's
3:41
moving into that kind of there's a lot of things that need to change from small business mentalities
3:46
to bigger business mentalities and sometimes you have to hire externals that know that that know how to manage great big teams
3:53
now to manage marketing or whatever um but there is still a little bit of hiring your mates yeah done a bit which
4:01
used to be a lot back in the day but certainly from retail and my experience when I was doing the retail management
4:07
they did have Design Studio people going on these courses um so they did take it seriously I
4:13
remember actually we had a conversation um a whole bunch of us when we were in our region because we used to break up
4:19
the the UK into different regions and each region had a cell this is retail and um Workshop used to be seen as like
4:27
the Pinnacle of Staff training and customer service and other companies would come and ask how they go about
4:33
doing it because we used to have really good customer service all right okay and we had a really robust Management training scheme
4:39
um which baffles me why it doesn't exist anymore um it's bizarre but that putting that
4:46
aside I I think my experiences was a lot of learning so when I if I go
4:53
if I do two separate parties like retail yeah it's very different some similarities but very different to to
4:58
managing a creative team in a design studio so retail was very much like
5:04
numbers based you've got to make money yeah otherwise what's the point in you being there yeah and the interesting
5:09
thing about Workshop is a lot of the stores you get everything out again like Meadow Hall it would be smack in the middle of
5:16
like a multiplex shopping center and they're like Zone one kind of shops most
5:22
of Games Workshop shops were what they call the tertiary Zone in like cities and towns which are on the peripherals
5:28
of a town it was more of a destination store so people would go there you didn't rely on football and it was this
5:34
weird notion I suppose that you don't want just every Tom Dick and Harry coming in and waste and your staff
5:40
wasting time on people that are not going to purchase it you want people that know it or Word of Mouth are aware
5:45
of it yeah and that's the people you focus on well that's it isn't it you're absolutely right when if you are
5:50
for one sort of effective a niche yeah thing you can put your store anywhere and one of my routes to work it's not
5:57
there anymore but right in the middle of a suburban area there used to be a Bang and Olufsen oh yes yes yeah yeah and I
6:04
remember my wife said to me said what a weird place and I went she won't be a place to have a shop like that I went it's not because if you buy Bang and
6:11
Olufsen you'll just drive to wherever the shop is yeah you don't need to walk past it and go oh do you know what I was thinking about at 12 Grand 12 grams yeah
6:20
I mean you go there because you go in there aren't you you know and and you write it but it must be tiring when
6:27
it's not nicely but must be tiring when you're dealing with just nosy curiosity
6:32
type yeah I saw that when I worked at Meadow Hall there was a lot of people just didn't know what it was and you put a lot of effort into running intro games
6:39
and then nothing would come from it so there's a lot of time wasted which is why I understood why you'd have it on the peripheral do you ever feel like
6:44
sometimes in Meadow Hall it was just like somewhere to show for the kids yeah yeah every still had that we used to
6:50
have like parents that would just drop their kids off because they thought we were like a nanny service I honestly they did I mean I'm back for the kids
6:55
later I did lose my temper with with one of the dads because he used to do it every Saturday morning I'd leave his kid
7:01
he would just wander off and get a coffee and I found out the kid was seven I was like that's just I mean I'm a
7:06
parent I'd never leave my seven-year-old in a in a building full of people I don't know no never met in my life but
7:14
obviously the kid liked what we did and we we always looked after it made sure we kept on it but we weren't paid today
7:19
we felt Duty bound to look after him while I was in there but I just that I went to the dad at the end you can't
7:25
just dump him and leave me if you do I'll inform you is yeah you're just abandoning your child you never came in
7:30
again yeah girl you can you could abandon your child dude but when you but when you come to collect them I expected to be spending at least 19 years that's
7:37
our service charge so oh you come to collect your child and here's the land Raider an army bar
7:46
yeah um the managing side of things was was so I I learned on the job I think that
7:52
was that was a big thing so you you fed all this information you do like some practical stuff like I did at Meadow
7:58
Hall and then once that's all done it's like yep you're good enough off you go and then you're given a store I have to
8:03
learn things like what the hell like for like men what was Nets what was gross
8:08
yeah so yeah you had like your books you had to keep them going you had to always be that I think the rule was like 15
8:13
growth each month um and obviously you had to and the drivers for that were intro games and
8:19
core core game sales yeah um but we were at the time I think there
8:24
was a bit of a shift because we weren't sort of massively we're going to say this we we
8:30
would get people excited about the product and chilled out about it but then that kind of wish and hope that
8:37
they come back and buy it yeah um but you can't run a business I'm wishing hope no
8:42
so back from the amount of times I've had quiet days and I'm just quite thanks
8:48
to Glass just looking at people going past with long hair just wishing they would come in yeah so you did become
8:54
very sort of you had certain numbers you always stayed away because I think that's because I was always naked because I've been leaning against the
9:01
window with clothes on they might I mean that's probably why we went wrong in Derby yeah you should probably like you know cut down on the nudity a bit more
9:06
just yeah maybe that's probably what it was and the smell oh God the retail smell a bit of a
9:13
slaanesh heavy store yours oh yeah it was actually yeah yeah a few people tell tell you stories about
9:19
the cabinets and the models I've got a I've got uh I I I used to use
9:25
a um a really good comic store in the center of Nottingham quite a lot
9:31
and you would walk into the store and you would walk past somebody and as soon as they went but you think oh Jesus
9:37
Christ bless them they're not getting out of the house much and as soon as they left and the member of Staff would just look and go yeah and the door is
9:43
closed and yeah I see that's polite we will talk to do it to them so we had the
9:50
Ten Commandments just glazed Glade them as they stood there just in the eyes it was a bit
9:56
wrong to ask that of Staff because you had the Ten Commandments which was like awareness acknowledge people come to the
10:01
store be aware of their behavior which which section of the shop are they going to be going to 40K they're going to
10:07
Warhammer then once they've gone to one of those it's like right they're not interested in 40K these are
10:12
the things I need to talk about there was like a whole load of things like build a rapport yeah the best one was maintain person behind you not for
10:19
yourself but for them too so there used to be a lad and it wasn't his fault but he'd come in and he did smell
10:25
and the thing is it's like Saturday so you're getting parents going in you get the water I mean and immediately going
10:31
things I don't know if this is somewhere a hobby I want to introduce my children to yeah you know so yeah we always had a
10:38
can of like links or Dove and it would just be like Sam can we stand behind that though can you
10:44
just spray yourself please mate because yeah you don't want to put people off you got to the point where you
10:49
understood why we did it but it's funny explained it but it was such a weird uncomfortable thing that you had to do it's a weird thing isn't it because you
10:55
think it comes like a stereotyped yeah oh yeah no it's just like oh you know smelly Geeks you don't get out the house
11:00
you don't interact with women so they don't look after themselves and or and you go and it seems on paper like a
11:06
really lazy easy stereotype but it's more real than you yeah it's such more of a real thing than you know you know
11:13
it shouldn't be like this but for a time it was a very male-centric yeah yeah and
11:20
whenever the sister of a brother would come in the store everyone was like there's a woman in here what do we do
11:25
well why wait for electricity I work for electricity company and I was leaving and when I was leaving um they said to
11:33
me um oh I wasn't even obvious it was my better I can't remember anyway would you start big whip rounds for things and uh
11:40
a good friend of mine and she still is to stay a friend of mine Vicky she worked she she worked with me and
11:46
Vicki's really pretty very Raven head looking girl and and um
11:51
she said oh what go on what you want from Games Workshop for like I say for
11:56
whatever the event was and I said and it was the starter box for Inquisitor well the starter blister is absolutely yeah
12:03
yeah yeah and she come back and when she gave me and I opened it on the day she went it's a bit weird that place isn't it and
12:09
I went really loud I'm like I don't know it's like me just like my church what's weird doing a lot of weird bugs went
12:16
he said seems to be a lot of people in there that don't seem to know what women are you could have took the man behind the
12:23
counter about 12 minutes to just try and figure out how to ask me to take money off me you know what I mean
12:30
I think it's a bit of a funny it's a weird it has this weird connotation to
12:35
it where it on paper it sounds like you're writing a comedy show yeah but it's all blatantly true yeah it's really
12:40
odd it I think the hobby certainly at that time was
12:45
very sort of drawn to Lads and males and stuff but that that was never to say that anyone else couldn't do it it's
12:52
just when you had so many in the shop it was I guess off-putting yeah to a certain point because I was I was put
12:58
off for a long time um because I used to I had to do this as a job I used to hate it when the staff member pounded on you literally just
13:05
Patrick hi how you doing how can I help I'm like just leave me alone I I come across as being someone quite extrovert
13:10
but I'm actually quite introverted I just want to be left alone and look at a shop in my own time you know I always
13:16
loved with that was when um when I uh I moved out of the games were actually playing uh GW based products and I went
13:22
into playing confrontation by Rackham and I went into playing Infinity by covers ballet because I knew them I
13:30
still mostly worked in Citadel paints because I knew them you know and I always loved that was when he would go
13:36
into the my local store being the fryer Lane store and he'd go in and they'd go hello there you go hello
13:43
like somebody appeared out of nowhere you know at least like they've just jumped out of the Shelf at you go why
13:48
are you painting at the moment you know because you've still dead you've got like a you go and I used to go oh I'm painting um I'm painting the uh I had no
13:56
Army for Infinity do you know what Infinity really great oh no no anyway you just I'll see you at the till when
14:02
you're ready to go can't talk about other stuff yeah yeah don't talk about other games I mean I suppose from my
14:08
point of views uh managing the staff I had to do a lot of that yeah like lead my examples like run intro games talk to
14:15
customers there was a great one where there's a guy turned up to look at the paints I don't think it was you no one to get some paints from the rack and
14:21
I'll just like it's gonna do some paint so I'll just headed off towards I was like yeah buddy what are you painting and uh just again I just not thought
14:29
about how on to to say it just came out like what you're painting then yeah and he's like come on love we're going
14:34
I'll turn around I was like that's not how you approach a customer
14:40
but yeah there's a lot of learning um I found myself making mistakes but I had a great team I mean Duncan was one
14:46
of the staff members there a guy called Neil Nigel Andy and Alex something about keto I was key time to start off with
14:51
but yeah yeah um but yeah it was learning a lot
14:56
making mistakes showing those mistakes being done because I had to I was an extra I was a staff member so
15:04
if it was like a Monday I was the only person in yeah single single people shot well for a lot
15:10
well ours was probably about five and we had two full-timers and a manager and
15:15
like a bunch of key timers for like weekends and holidays but obviously you had days off during the week not the
15:20
weekend and so you like Mondays will be super quiet I'd run like the store on my
15:26
own on a Monday Tuesdays would be longer opening hours so you need like split sheets yeah in the morning to like
15:31
evening time then one would be like lunchtime till night time um so a lot of the time you know you had
15:38
to keep doing those things where you run into your games talking to customers so you'd never lose the skill but you'd
15:44
have to understand why did those things so you can communicate to the to the staff and
15:49
then you have to run training on those things as well but there's a difference between being someone that didn't take criticism and someone that was like I
15:56
did that wrong and the guys have pointed out I don't I shouldn't get offended by it because I did it wrong I've been
16:02
telling him to do it this way for so many months now and I've just not done it that way so I think one of the things I learned was
16:08
just taking the hits when you get it wrong yeah and just accepting it and going you know
16:14
what screwed up there that's not how to do it that's definitely so would you Quarry do it would you Clash them in
16:20
your to go back to the original question would you class um managing a derby is one of your
16:27
highlights or it was for a long time then there was a bit of a rocky time um because we moved from being like
16:34
conversational hobby related stores getting people in and
16:40
that hit me from being friendly hobby conversations to sales I've never really
16:46
considered myself a salesy person I know technically I worked in Warhammer TV and
16:51
that is a marketing yeah product where you sell stuff but I still for me I was painting stuff but yeah but it's not
16:57
face to face yeah and I think the minute you lose do you in a minute you haven't there
17:03
isn't direct contact back from someone the sales changes you know what I think it was and this is why I I think I
17:08
enjoyed Army painting more as a manager and as a staff member is I had control over the results
17:15
all right that's a good way putting it yeah whereas in Derby you had to rely on
17:20
people walking by and there was like conversations like well if you put more events on more people come down because there's only so many people that will
17:25
come down because it's a Monday morning at nine o'clock so I don't know what you expecting unless we get all the um job Seekers
17:32
coming down they ain't gonna buy anything because they're a job Seekers allowance all the school kids we've got to wait until the weekend for the
17:38
parents to come in so you can run as many as events as you want have many reasons to come to the store but a lot of it was still relying on people to
17:45
spend money and because I wasn't very sales orientated I found that very hard and I think the the team did as well and
17:52
I'm long story short I moved to one world and then got a job painting armies in the studio and I really enjoyed that
17:59
and had a lot of control over the deadlines there and the results that you had to they're they were within my
18:06
control I could literally go I can paint 140 Euro kind a day now I know I can do that because I've shown I can do it I
18:12
can paint this amount of figures up to this standard when you became a manager at uh on the Army painters team did you
18:19
still paint as well for a good time I found it hard not to because I'm a creative person I like making stuff I
18:26
think for me it was a lot of my hot Peaks
18:31
um I guess the most rememberable rememberable momentous
18:38
moments where uh when I've created something for workshop and it stayed so like the nalek dynasty
18:44
um doing like different color schemes for like Imperial Guard doing different color schemes for Space Wolves like you
18:51
know we've got this company by um I forget it's van bloodhow we did a paint guide on him I was like you know
18:57
how do you make spaces look a bit different to space walls well I'll put some markings on them yeah I'll convert this guy to look a little bit different
19:04
um and when we did like all these other paint guides you know that kind of like creating stuff from nothing or having
19:09
like a text or like a paragraph in a in a book going I'm going to turn that into an army
19:16
um I used to find those really really valuable and rewarding but when you become the manager you can't do that
19:22
anymore yeah you have to stop and then it becomes about the people themselves and getting that out of the people and I
19:27
reckon for a good six months I was still painting and obviously I got told by my manager and
19:32
you can't keep painting but some of it was because the workload was quite tight I needed to help out anyway because even
19:38
though we had 10 painters we still had quite tight headlines here and there well it's it's a it's a it's a you know
19:45
when when you you manage people to to sell things or to put
19:51
things on shelves and whether it be you know warehouses or whatever it is there's a sort of General way that that
19:57
works but what what are sort of like the challenges of like managing creatives because that's
20:04
going to be a completely different way of yeah looking at things isn't it rare So managing stuff in retail you you you
20:10
have like your kpis your key performance indicators which is how many intros they've run so if someone like let's say
20:15
duncano did like 97 intros but only sold one core game there's something about his intro games that aren't line up with
20:21
why people aren't buying them but I wasn't letting everybody just roll fours that's the problem yeah yeah but the other side of it is someone's like got
20:27
like two intro games but a hundred core games it's like well you're getting someone else's sales there so yeah I
20:34
need to push out more intro games so it you look at the figures to work out how a staff member in the team's performing
20:40
whereas with the iPad because the created everyone's got their own little style you might not necessarily know and we tried to paint armies so they all
20:46
look very similar like it's been painted by one person yeah but everyone has their own style speed level
20:52
um and idea of how things should look and you you would write a brief and you'd have
20:58
um like a test model this is the standard they were looking for these are the markings this is and even though you
21:03
could have like a brief that's really rope in your head that's robust and there's a model there to show off and
21:09
you're there next to it someone's still going to get it wrong because they still go a bit low and gone so it's trying to find out why that why
21:15
that happened well there's a bit there to fascinating to me as well is that if I'm please correct me if I'm wrong so
21:21
when especially if it's a new Cola scheme for some patients and I know
21:28
it doesn't happen very often but a whole new Army or a new variant yeah thereof because every time I
21:35
virtually every time a codex is released there is a they'll add a new Clan or
21:40
chat well not chapter as much with Marines because they're a bit steady but they'll add like a new Clan or the new
21:46
house of this or that and although they'll they'll add other things in some of them never get a paint Scheme you
21:52
just have to just make it up for yourself but um I assume when that all sort of started that comes down from
21:58
from heavy metal yes yes and then and then every metal as
22:04
we know will have even though the back of the box doesn't seem to mention it every metal will be there'll be glazing
22:12
and shading and lots of things going on that until you literally almost put one
22:17
of their Miniatures under the microscope yeah you won't spot that there is a whole range of of sorts of
22:24
technical level of painting that it suggests isn't there but blatantly is so you have that and then Army painting
22:33
by its very naturism painted to that level of extremes because it's sitting that little bit further back
22:39
who who does the translation where's that where's that done is that
22:45
done by heavy metal or is that done by the Army painter who gets that middle ground early days
22:50
um because I we used to sit in the literally next door to me metal I would just follow like dads would write a
22:56
brief that's Latham yeah so again I'm taking skaven because it's just a nice memorable one yeah because there was a lot of training went off with that he'd
23:03
Write a brief for all the painters because he used to supervise the heavy metal painters back then before he went
23:08
off to school and he'll Write a brief and out of all the colors and stuff like that you'd also give me the brief but I'd have to
23:14
turn that into something that's a bit more achievable through speed um so like the way that they've
23:20
highlight the Reds would be like through like blends and like multiple highlights and glazes and I'd be like I'm just
23:25
gonna paint my fist in red and I'll shade it with that color and I'll highlight over that color so you cut out like three or four paints so cow came
23:32
down to you basically so uh when I was on my own yeah it was when we we grew a
23:37
little bit and it was like me Duncan and Steve um we would have conversations amongst ourselves like what do you think would
23:43
that and we do the odd test but sometimes you'd have like Duncan would do ayandan Steve would be doing Undead
23:49
and I'll be doing like lizard men so you'd have your own project so it'll be down to them to make those calls how
23:55
many would be in if you were doing lizard man say for example how many will be in your team I was just being on me yeah the early days I'll be doing a
24:02
whole lizman Army on my own and don't be like doing High ending no wonder you're quick
24:08
I mean there's a lot of cuts would you have to send your formula backup
24:14
no no I used to have a notebook and what was really frustrating early days is we didn't have names for all the new paints
24:21
it was all code so so like a great example was let's go for the yellows
24:27
um instead of base coat they had F because they're originally I think they're going to call them Foundation paints but Avalon Sunset was f001 so
24:34
Foundation zero zero one yeah and then yurio yellow was l002 all right
24:42
um flash kits which is lighter was l003 and I think Cassandra yellow was w004 so
24:49
you literally have all these codes and I'll just be like base coat yellow egg yellow bright yellow and then eventually
24:55
they've got names you had to like get used to names but in the early days I've just got like these notebooks of just code of like what I'm using for the base
25:02
code what I'm using for the highlight and this and the other so I I would have and even not before before I left I
25:09
found a bunch of my notebooks there of no use to me at that point because I forgot all the character platform like one or two
25:15
but it was all the color schemes when I did the Lizard Man The High Elves and the necrons oh it must be fascinating so
25:20
yeah it was all but it was all like Kate was like skin and there would like be some care so when when so for every
25:26
metal one stage figures out their uh color scheme and then they sent it to you for them then it was like fire it
25:32
and forget wasn't it yeah and then they they they took note who ultimately
25:38
then would be keeping an eye on the Army painters who would be going who
25:45
would be going on outpot who would be going oh well where we need to be or get ready because we're going to be giving
25:51
you this or who so we had um schedulers and we had like um project leads usually like um someone
25:58
from games Dev like Matt Ward for instance if yeah necrons he'll be like project leading it and he'll be checking who's doing well there'd always be
26:04
someone around yeah always checking on your productivity but it was very much self-driven that was like let's say the
26:10
early days of like when it was just a handful of army painters when it became a big team they needed a supervisor so I
26:15
was the supervisor at the time and again I learned a lot here I made lots of mistakes um I'd kept trying different ways of
26:22
like doing schedules eventually it just I found a way that worked for everyone and it was just like a chart on Google
26:28
Excel and I'd have all the painters and I'd have the workflow broken into days the schedule itself worked in weeks but
26:35
you can't plan a project in where you can if you really wanted to but the staff preferred like a day-to-day
26:42
breakdown so like a character would take a day um like rebasing an army might take a
26:49
day and then like painting this bigger character might take three days so that is like a week's worth it was was that
26:56
also then something that you do would you then take pre-existing army army
27:01
army painter level Miniatures and rebase them yeah we had to there's a few times when and we moved from Warhammer to age
27:08
a sigma there was a lottery Basin uh there was a load of like when the 32 mil round bases came out yeah and Marines
27:15
went on to those necrons went on to those so there's a lot of like jigging around rebasing and stuff but going back
27:21
to the heavy metal thing yeah what we used to do was we never so so heavy
27:27
metal would paint the box cover yeah and the best way I describe this is the burger
27:32
picture in McDonald's or like Burger King and we all know that that burger
27:39
picture is made of Lies yeah absolutely right yeah yeah because sometimes like the the cheese isn't even cheese the
27:45
cheese PVA mix is something else and a bit of cheese the actual and I've discovered this over time the burger
27:50
itself was it has a whole quarter cut out of it and water injected into it yeah yeah so the burgers you see look
27:56
appetizing they're selling the product but they're full of lies and I'm not saying that the heavy metal painters are
28:03
lie as they're not but they do a lot of things that we don't show or they use colors that aren't available because they do a lot of mixing and stuff like
28:09
that but they make the box packaging look as good as it possible could be I would argue sometimes that they go a bit too far yeah that it's actually like how
28:16
would you do that because I just interject I was telling the parts about this a while ago
28:22
um fryer Lane because of it being the nearest store to Warhammer World sometimes was looked after a little bit
28:27
better than other stores yeah things came they I you know I've been in there before stay where for I think it was for
28:32
a weekday as an heavy metal painter was in the store and and he was painting um
28:38
the new tyranids and in an alternative color scheme and all little things going
28:44
on and I remember them having uh Elder snipers Rangers yeah eldorages
28:50
they had Eldar Rangers and a cabinet and I was remember I I was in there nearly
28:55
every day because I walked past it on my way home from work and I was saying to one of the members of Staff who I got on quite well the Rangers are really good
29:01
and he went opens the cabinets and he took the ranges out and then he went like that and he'd tear them all around and the
29:08
backs just went painted yeah and I went how would you do that
29:13
you went yeah in in white dwarf the only photographed the front so then these were being used for any of the were
29:18
being used really the battle reports The Backs were just like just primed black or white depends on what the color
29:24
variance used to be like they'd only paint the front and I get it because it's like you can spend two days doing the back that no one would see but yeah
29:31
or just one day doing the front see I feel sorry for every battle painters on some levels now because now you go on
29:36
the store there's a 360 option oh yeah and the fact that now people can grab a
29:41
miniature and blow it up as big as they want you know and you go oh you know it must be you know it's like you know they
29:48
said to me like um movie and TV makeup artists start to work so much harder when everything went
29:53
4K because at one point in time you know a spot coming to make up you just wouldn't see but now that you've got a
29:59
television I can see it yeah yeah so the guy super heavy metal painters on some levels I think
30:05
I I but in a weird way I also think and I don't know whether you agree I think um
30:10
it seems almost whether it's officially unofficially or it's just by Furniture but
30:16
every metal seems to I don't know it's maybe because I'm not suggesting I'm a good painter because we all know I'm not
30:22
what I'm suggesting um has there been a little bit of a a a
30:28
shift where I think lately every metal looks a little bit more achievable than
30:35
it used to is that just because as we've got YouTube and there's so many great painters out there we all know a bit
30:40
more than we used to and it doesn't seem quite as much black magic as it was or how they scaled back a little bit or not
30:46
so many more direct sellable in a way so for a long time this is not like
30:52
pointing things anymore but when you're in a team of creatives that all very much experts in the field everyone wants
30:58
to show how good they are and sometimes I think the problem there is you get like a Schism going on where
31:04
this person painting this to Men of a Space Marine Squad yeah is going to go their own way whilst this person here is
31:10
going to go and show you this way and then eventually which is why if you look at like the blood Angel Army all the
31:16
squads and the vehicles are all different tones of red yeah because they all went their own way as opposed to being a combined unified group and going
31:23
let's all work together and I think some of that was just time people work in different situations or some people
31:28
working from home some people working in the office because I I got this when we used to do like big events for games day
31:34
where you you'd literally put out like across the region 10 stores this is how we were going to base the models we're
31:40
going to base them with sand we're going to paint them with Scorch Brown we're going to dry brush them with more and Fang brown or normal and brown like a an
31:47
ocher and then when a drug addiction with a bone color every single Squad that came from the different stores the bases look different no matter how clear
31:54
and the reason why I discovered this was when we used to do the Army paint when as Army painters
32:00
um they'd base their own squads in the end it it became much easier for one person or two people to base everything
32:06
yeah that makes sense because what you'd find is dull but it makes sense it is everyone got to do it yeah um but what
32:13
you'd find is like the way I did you get double shift on that if you've been naughty you're you're getting an extra week on
32:19
Facebook if I see another grass tuft well let's
32:26
see the thing is that you could you could like spread that out so one person did dry brush and one person did tough thing one
32:31
person did remin oh so you know I've always wanted life which I'd like to do but I'd like to do more more women or
32:38
more tough but one thing it did become quite
32:44
apparent which is why we got like one or two people doing it was how I would dry brush a base yeah and
32:50
how light or heavy I'd apply that dry brush someone would apply it really heavy or super light yeah so that's why
32:57
it became so obvious like from doing the big games day kind of like um Collections and stuff where all the
33:03
different stores did different bases even though it was all the same colors it became apparent to me it was like it's about how much pressure because
33:10
again when we're doing our videos it's like we I can put a script up
33:16
and a hat and you go off and paint it it will look different without watching the video yeah your painted model will look
33:23
different to my painted model well yeah it's the way you apply the pain well it's a creative thing isn't it you know I say this to people um
33:29
I see this people all the time with regards to um with with haircuts I always say you
33:34
could take somebody and give give their and give their what they want for their haircuts as an instruction to 10
33:41
different Barbers you could give an identical instruction but you'll end up with 10 slightly different yeah absolutely and they'll go from slightly
33:48
different to radically different shot by concerns I've got no back and size where's it gone well yeah you know if
33:54
you don't know a number and you say short short one person you know yeah I love some people say to me they go uh
34:01
I'll show you on the backhand side as short as you can go and I go well the shortest I can go is
34:07
actual skin and no hair at all you know yellow duster and some pledge level and
34:14
they go oh no about a three well that's not sure yeah you know people it's quite a jump
34:21
people's couples understanding of extremes I'll give you a final one of that example
34:27
um a guy who's tattoosed me a number of times used to have a store in it used to
34:32
work a restore in uh in in Derby of all places and he um I was in there getting tattoos and another guy was saying that
34:39
um at the time that George Clooney movie Dusk Till Dawn hadn't been long out yeah okay and all the way and all the way in
34:46
the through the film George Clooney has had this suit jacket on with this white vest and you know this black piece of
34:52
tribal right up here on his neck and then a black piece of tribal right there on his hand and at the very end of the
34:57
movie when he walks out into the daylight and he takes that now Dusty blood the jacket off and he throws it
35:02
into the back of his car he's wearing a vest and you realize that what there is the thing that goes all the way up to
35:07
the next yeah yeah and uh and the tattoo was said to me uh he said people come in all the time and
35:13
ask for uh The Dusk Till Dawn tattoo and I and I go oh really he said yeah and then they would say but don't take it
35:19
down to the hand and don't take it all the way up to the neck and he used to say less Dust Till Dawn and more breakfast till lunchtime
35:27
that's good but you would though wouldn't you yeah yeah because obviously for a certain time you couldn't have
35:33
tattoos all over your face no no it affected your job chances which is bizarre but um well yeah we're going back to the other metal thing is I think
35:39
they are a bit more um there's a bit more structure there's a bit better briefs and I know one of
35:45
the guys that's there running it um I'm again not going to name drop anyone but um I've always respected him as a
35:50
painter yeah and he he's very much like doesn't I'm not saying there's anything wrong
35:55
with non-metallic Metals but it's uh Fame it's a frivolous thing it's just like base coat shade highlight highlight
36:01
you can make amazing looking models from those things yeah and he's driven a lot of I think that that in the team and
36:07
obviously you've got other people that are doing different things like for I think for a long time they're missing and it's used to frustrate me
36:13
because we used to get this when we were in the I could say this now and I'm not bothered about it but as the Army
36:19
painters we never copied the stuff that they did on the box cover we always did a variant color scheme yeah because
36:25
there's no way of copying it they've used mad colors and it's so tired and it's time and also it's like it
36:31
that that's they've almost got a small collection anyway like a um a strike
36:36
force or like a Battle Force or something like that yeah so that's fine as its own thing so we'd always pick
36:42
another color scheme that's just to put it into perspective for um for the viewers say
36:49
when you were there um would you do what did you I think you told us on the last show where you do
36:54
like a couple of Marines in a day yeah yeah how long does an heavy metal painter get to do a marine uh you know
37:01
what I can't remember I think sometimes it was like one every two days but that might have been shutting down right wow um but it
37:08
was when we were doing stuff for data sheets we used to put a bit more time into him but actually if you're doing some dry brushing you could probably do
37:13
like five in a in a day in a bit something like that but when we're doing all the edge highlighting Marines and
37:19
certainly to train like new guys coming in like getting things highlighted if you can highlight a Space Marine
37:25
especially black spaceman you can probably do anything yeah um so that was always a good way of like
37:30
training someone's like always the job interview was paying an ultramarine and seen their highlights and how they even
37:35
again giving them a list of colors and how different people approach that when they send the models in and was always
37:40
very interesting but yeah I can't really remember some of the I mean a prime example was the varangard's chaos
37:47
Knights the big one I think was like 11 days for every male painter paint that so it but you know the invest the time
37:54
because it's getting on the front the packaging so it's funny because I think I swear I'm very very similar to heavy
37:59
metal scene painters is that I paint in about battle length of time or something
38:05
but without the results yeah yeah roughly 11 days to get to it but still
38:10
wouldn't look anything like that at the end of it yeah so it's um so
38:15
um I suppose my next question really would be then once you move from there and went into into
38:23
painting for YouTube did you did you like the lack of
38:32
running people and and did you did you like the light I don't want to say lack of responsibility you had a lot of
38:38
responsibility for putting your own I tell you what killed me as a manager yeah um for
38:44
um I loved managing the oil painters really enjoyed it great team um I think we we worked together I can't
38:50
if it was like two to three years probably longer it feels a lot is it certainly feels like it was
38:56
a long time ago but I'll probably end up finding out it was only like a two years but it felt longer yeah they were a
39:02
great team all of them were I mean we went through a couple of different people like through probation some didn't quite make it some some did all
39:07
right you have money that go up oh yeah the people went to a whole bunch so Natalie slin and Paul Norton went to
39:14
heavy metal uh Steve and Tom were what I called my right hand left-end men they
39:19
were like quality controllers they've been they were good at writing briefs because they got to a point where I had
39:26
10 painters to about three photographers and a whole photography studio which I'll come to in a minute but getting the
39:33
three photographers from the um what is the books and Game books and box game Studio working with the painters made a
39:41
lot of sense because whatever we painted they were photographing yeah so you could find out what their needs are
39:47
um and they can Riff Off with us like I'll be really cool if you could do like these characters we don't need the main
39:54
like we don't government painting because we will use heavy metals good I mean there's no point in painting the second one though but be really cool to
39:59
have a conversion this guy some low level scenery because they used to really like low-level scene tied bases put a lot of smoke in there so when you
40:05
had those guys in the meetings with a guy with with the painters and you we're talking about what we're going to do and
40:11
they're chucking some ideas that was really helpful um and sometimes like I said in the previous uh chat some people were doing
40:17
age of Sigma some people doing 40K so we'll be doing some completely random making a board or whatever but having
40:23
the Insight of those photographers and also what they use those models for because sometimes you put a lot of
40:29
effort into something and then it gets one shot she'll be like ah okay so if they're only going to go into one photo you know
40:35
what we'll just do one or two that are really nice the rest will just bash out a bunch to go in the background especially if you're getting covered in
40:41
Smoke why waste time on something that's not going to get used but you can still paint it so it looks like a nice Squad that can be used
40:47
further down the line for bat reports yeah yeah um so that was fine that was manageable I enjoyed that learning a lot about
40:54
photography as well so I remember that the photographers had a bit of a no I wouldn't say bad reputation but
41:00
certainly there was a lot of what was deemed slacking in in the state they
41:06
were and they just had a lot of work to do and I then thought you know what I've been asked to keep an eye on him manage
41:12
them and improve their their speed and their capability I went into the photography studio and it became quite
41:18
apparent that they had a lot of work to do and there was a lot of
41:23
I guess not red tape but things which made their life harder so for instance like um Chris Merrick really top lad he
41:31
had a double page shot so he had all these different types of shots for a caridex or an army bug you'd have data
41:37
sheets or War scroll ones where you'd have like little shots here yeah what they could do was set up a little set
41:43
put a squad in do a cool photo put another Squad in do a cool photo move a couple of bits put Squad in do a cool
41:49
photo they could probably do like a hundred or so of those in a day yeah because they've just done one setup and
41:54
they're just putting different squads in there to if it was like a tank they'd have to like build up the set a bit more so you could fit a time yeah yeah I
42:00
understand so they could like do we could do 100 data sheets in a day and then you add half page shots which was a
42:07
bit more like a Scenic shot um full page shots which were again a close-in Scenic shot with a lot more
42:13
stuff going off behind it and the thing that again I didn't discover because I was like I need to find out why it takes so long to for a double page shot so
42:19
like five days for a big what they call DPS double page shot which went across and on that shot you'd probably have
42:24
anywhere between two to five hundred figures in shot so the thing that I was like Chris talk me through how you get
42:31
about setting up a shot there because I don't know anything about this and he's like well there's a lot of things to consider you there's the stacking so
42:38
they set up a load of stuff at the back first take some shots and they set stuff in front of it take some shots then they set some stuff in front of that takes
42:44
some shots and then all those shots that are then done they compile into one shot so it's it's not as like blurry so
42:51
you're still getting it blurs at the back but it's not as mad as a blur but then there's everything of like the the
42:57
depth of field so you'd set up a guy here and the guy in the shop would look
43:03
really close to him but he's not he is there yeah miles away but he looks in that
43:09
shot really close and then every time he's got to look he's got to go back once he's set up a guy look through the
43:14
viewfinder I suck that gun's in the way of his face because there's a thing like don't have the guns in front of people's
43:19
faces all these sort of rules and regulations we had of like photos of like this could get in the way don't have models going into the gutter which
43:25
is the bit in the middle yeah yeah it's what I learned a lot from photographers just by sitting with these guys and looking through the processes and I was
43:32
like yeah you need five days for a double page shot especially if you've been asked to do like anything between 500 models 200 models or something I
43:39
suppose as well as you to some degree as well is the problem you've got is that because
43:44
um in this hobby some would say we can be a bit pinnicky about oh yeah about
43:49
things you go wow why have they got the the assault Marines right at the back of the thing yeah you've got to figure it's
43:55
Gotta Have a narrow It's gotta narratively make sense for how the Army functions isn't it as well and then there's the the tough bit with that it's
44:01
not just the narrative side of it why a thing is here why a thing is there there's all the markings so when we've done like I did the Imperial Guard army
44:08
with a couple of guys we called it the 90 second and they like got dark green jackets beige trousers no no beige
44:16
jackets dark green trousers like yellow stripes on them and then we did like a slightly different tone of green but they all look the same yeah they're
44:23
all they're all marked differently and it used to trigger me so much when like one photographer rushed off his feet and
44:29
you'd have like Squad 118 but in there was Squad member 506.
44:35
that would kill me that would kill me so we ended up like painting big colors on the bottom of the bases to try and help
44:41
out there was all sorts of things with even like magnetize like sections in a in a very useful box so that's that
44:47
Squad that's that Squad that's that Squad just happens things just get mixed up especially when someone's rushing they've got so much to do and the other
44:54
thing as well is like model breakages were quite prevalent yeah and I I would still and I
45:01
had a lot of conversations when I was a photography manager which was we used to get a lot of conversations with the
45:06
heavy metal managers going your photographers keep breaking stuff they're not handling they need to have like a manhandling session it was like a
45:13
bit patronizing now to pick up a model yeah um sometimes however they were right to say that because the way I've seen some
45:20
other people handle models is atrocious it's like no wonder it breaks yeah the
45:25
way you're holding it put onto the board with a dust pan and brush but when you rushed when and I think as well that
45:32
there is and I did an example which was I can pick up this model I super glued
45:37
together and I consider it to the other side of the rim in my break yeah it was it was a ballsy moment to to prove that
45:42
but I did it yeah I didn't break and I was like heavy metal don't glue their things particularly well that's why when they reach over to grab a model and pick
45:48
up why it's based because we've been asked to pick them up by the base they might accidentally catch the spirit yeah and the spear would just pop off yeah it
45:55
doesn't take two seconds to glue it but there was sort of that balance between massive workload models that could be
46:02
glued a little bit have a little bit more glue on them and carelessness and the weird thing is is every now and
46:08
again something gets through doesn't either as a codex or a picture from something not that long ago that made it
46:14
to final shot and there was a Space Marine I think it was a space Marine's Arm coming away and there was blue
46:20
tackle yeah and it made it into the because it's the weapon options you'd have like different weapons yeah and okay went into shot was this and I
46:27
know what that would have happened because they would have spent ages doing the shot kept checking the viewfinder that that because there's a lighter here
46:35
have just made that do that and if you're not paying attention you just you've solved that section over there and now you're worrying about this
46:40
section it won't even fall on your radar yeah so I can see how it happens and we used to get like proofs printed out and
46:46
would go through and there'd be lots of notes on it going re-shoot reshoot some of the times I'm not reaching it for that that's that's like two days worth
46:52
of work we're not we'll just because the great thing with the difference between video and photography is you can Photoshop photography yeah of course
46:58
videos a little bit harder um but yeah so I mean I I understood why
47:04
things took a lot longer there were some processes that could speed up a little bit and also from what was being asked that the photographers could be reduced
47:10
down a bit sometimes as well because like you'd have like you guys sat on their chairs in the in the studio going
47:17
yeah I want this army with this big shot against this big arm and I want that Army they've got no sense of reality of
47:23
how that would look well this is the problem is that I think you probably especially with the where things are massively creative is it it does become
47:31
all them teams become a better part of something and then they don't really you don't understand they don't understand
47:36
what each other yeah each other does you know and it's and he and I think that
47:41
you know I think in certain areas of business in certain companies it's very
47:47
obvious what the other one does but I was imagine when like I say there's a creativity element that's thrown into it it becomes quite easy to not understand
47:54
you understand your creative bit but you don't understand so I'd say the the best times of the studio whether that was
48:00
like managing or being a staff member because it was like the crossover a bit was that we have two managers we had a
48:07
studio manager in like the like the head of the design studio um I don't know the difference between
48:13
the two job ones like head hunch and one was like but there's a guy called Ben Fawcett no longer works with his chef
48:19
and then um max Butler who's still at the business doing stuff but they used to sit in the teams
48:26
and like do a little bit of hobby a little bit of chat but understood what each team did yeah and there became a
48:31
time when no one did that again so from my experience of like not known as anything about photography and just I
48:37
could have gone in there with judgments going you guys are really lazy and don't put your finger out very often or you could spend a day with one of them and
48:44
then ask of a why things take so long and go oh okay and then you can start thinking about how can we change process
48:50
how can we make your job easier not like slacking easy but just like if we want photos faster what can we do
48:56
to make that happen maybe not put 500 figures on the table you know that's going to help smoke can
49:02
cover a lot of a multitude of sins but there's only so much it can do before you can't control where the smoke goes
49:07
and you know and that and I think that is a good thing you know we my um my regiment when I was in the Army
49:13
we died quite a progressive command and officer and heed things like it was like if you call
49:19
for morses to be firing on that thing and they need to be set up and you're
49:26
then going why what's going on you know they would send people who may well be the guys
49:33
calling on Walther platoon to be doing doing their job to go and work with motors for a couple of weeks yeah to see
49:39
how long it takes them to set up if you go well you know why couldn't reconnaissance platoon figure that out
49:46
when they went forward there you go and I'll explain you know come and get on board and see how close
49:52
you can get or see what our cameras can do what this does or whatever and you you know I think that thing of like
49:58
pushing someone into the bit that that needs them yeah that that they need is
50:04
it gives them a little bit of an understandable thing and I think the idea of that of like hanging around with other teams in a way Workshop used to do
50:11
that they used to have a thing called Games Workshop 101 and I think it was such a great obviously with all the ndas and all the secrecy now behind like the
50:17
production stuff it's it's more of a barrier now as opposed to being a useful so what you do is you'd go through the
50:24
Journey of a model yeah so you'd go down into Miniatures and you'd watch like the sculptures it was literally Market Days
50:29
sort of um just not a day of jollies but you went through all the different departments that existed in Games
50:35
Workshop and worked out how things are done because there's always going to be you know that conversation going oh
50:40
things are taking ages in our sample order what they're doing sitting on the bum all day doing nothing until you actually go that one day on your Games
50:47
Workshop 101 and see the pack and see the blister packs being done yeah see it all been packed that and that whole
50:53
journey and process from like a drawing to a render on a screen to how it's told
50:59
in the tooling to how it's like manufactured and printed to how it's like put into the warehouse to how it's
51:05
then shipped out the warehouse and that whole journey back again into the store it's like oh yeah it's quite profound
51:10
actually I should just wind my neck in and show up a bit yeah absolutely right it's it's I think it's very easy to
51:16
there be in your bubble and nothing because all the other bubbles are working isn't it you know everyone's a cog in the machine and I do think
51:22
sometimes people think that their cob is the most important yeah in that and that's just human I think on someone else that's just human nature well you
51:28
will do because you become like self-centric in that zone yeah what we do is really important it's like yeah
51:34
but everything is important you're just another Cog in the machine so so then when you left
51:40
um army painter and then went over to um to YouTube yeah
51:47
to go where we were talking about this group I was on this just before it was how did that feel to go from the having
51:54
a team to worry about but you it became more it was more a case of self-managing them
52:00
really wasn't it I think all the years of managing you you have to be humble about everything
52:08
you do and know that you're going to make mistakes and know that you're gonna mess stuff up and how you get about
52:14
dealing that situation and whether that's with staff or not and up to that point I'd done a lot of these Academy
52:19
sessions which is a really good thing that again doesn't happen so much these days but you do a lot of Academy courses
52:26
on like questioning listening take keeping score taking action and all that information over the years just made me
52:31
a little bit more self-aware of every action I did whether that's on screen or like planning so I'd make my own little
52:38
schedule I'd write down and add up my processes obviously it took me a couple of months to get those processes in line
52:45
because I you know it was a very different job on painting an armies to painting one figure for TV I'd never scripted a script before
52:51
I never paint in front of the camera before so a lot of it was like trial and error on the first few weeks just to go
52:57
like right I'm just going to paint the stormcast because I painted a few of those recently I should really oppress this oh my God
53:04
what what am I saying what am I what am I what am I picking at but a lot of the principles of army painting was useful
53:10
because I could break down how the process of how I can make paint to the model easy from the lowest section of a
53:18
model to the highest section you know undercoating a one color washing it dry brushing and then picking
53:23
out your areas all those things were just I guess very much normal
53:29
processes to me up to this well I think that's um me and Pat when we were recording our
53:35
an episode recently we got talking about it was the fact that we were saying that
53:41
now that we've patch records that you do a lot of material and I've watched all that
53:48
material um we were saying that one of the things that is interesting is
53:54
your your speed comes from a well-defined yeah process and your
54:01
understanding of what color can sit next to that or what color can do that job
54:07
but also that job and the fact that you've made it as efficient as possible
54:12
yeah I think you know I think I think that's the really interesting bit because I think and obviously that's
54:19
massively useful for when you went on to to YouTube for GW is that understanding
54:25
of just how it all goes together which I think is like when you're a casual painter you can sort of wander your way
54:31
around the miniature and then yeah get lost in it and then but I think so I've been there I've done that where I've
54:37
just like sat and painted a model casually I'm just going I should have planned this out yeah because it just goes horrible
54:43
so I think you know I think it that bit of having to train
54:49
yourself and to be able to do that because obviously the problem um is Games Workshop have a particular
54:55
amount of time they want that that video to be you don't yeah and being able to think can I get all of that in I think
55:02
is quite I think it's quite fascinating to think of it that way yeah I mean as well like when I work with Duncan and
55:09
also with the uh the newer guys everyone has a different way of working or a different process and although I I think
55:16
the way I do things is an efficiency basing doesn't always mean it's the right way to do stuff and even now I
55:21
like if I'll do that again I'd do this or I'll do that and that's a great thing about painting there's always something
55:27
as a painter myself there's always something I can learn if I'm doing the the project
55:32
um or different ways I could have approached it or different colors I could have used instead of that really I could have used that red or I could have
55:38
just not used any Reds at all or whatever um but I certainly think
55:44
I learned a lot from the eye painting and managing to then do the job I I did
55:50
there and the managing thing was more like personal time management yeah yeah and also making myself accountable for when I make mistakes now I go about
55:57
dealing with those um but yeah because unfortunately you didn't have members of stuff you could
56:02
blame no no and that's that so the biggest my biggest bug bear um or my my biggest fault was sometimes
56:09
I'd be so invested in like planning a suite of videos that forget to order the stuff all right so then I have to go to
56:15
the store and get some bits and sometimes it wasn't always down to me forgetting it was like just because things took a while to turn on but I
56:21
think of all my biggest weaknesses when it came to doing like my presenting kind of stuff obviously presenting itself was
56:27
like something I had to learn over time but yeah just remember there are other things that you need to do and just
56:34
putting like things into my little schedule that I made was like don't forget to order the thing don't forget
56:40
to order the thing because it used to take about five to ten days for a sample
56:47
order to turn up oh wow so if I forgot to order it and it's tomorrow I'll be like stressed to order it but that was
56:55
just something to learn and even now um luckily Pat buys things because he's good like that but I have loads of stuff
57:01
at home so they've all got back up got a little bit behind us got a little bit behind us yeah two little bits there as
57:06
well but when you've got so much going off there is there is that danger that show or slip if we looked at
57:11
the most I want to say West because I think that's a bad way of putting the most difficult times of managing is
57:18
being under the cost of the sales and yeah and and having that
57:24
on you all the time and Games Workshop as you say taking that step towards being more sales
57:29
driven and a little bit less hobby driven yeah what would you say would just be your
57:35
standout but then would it be managing the at the painters yeah I'd say so
57:41
um because it was a great team and we had a lot of fun but we still we were professional yeah we used to have
57:46
something called Power ballad Friday where we were in a little room and it was probably safe for the rest of the studio to be fair yeah we closed the
57:53
door we'll just take power ballads on there was national anthem Friday where we just played every single impossible in this round from across the world so
57:59
we're all very same here but then we'd have like you know country and western Friday did you know where
58:07
the country and western fires they did productivity just really oh yeah yeah yeah absolutely Egyptian death metal you
58:13
know did like Ashford House Wednesday is everyone producing about 12 minutes
58:19
acid house Wednesdays that was something different in the studio yeah I bet it was yeah
58:25
well I think that's gave us a bit more of a an insight into what goes on from
58:31
especially from working from store all the way through the creative elements and then into a personal creative
58:37
element there I think I think that's I think since I think it's very easy to just look on the outside and look in a
58:44
Games Workshop and just think you understand how it all works and it really doesn't like I think as as a kid yeah and even now in fact I
58:51
love Lego right yeah Lego's great
58:57
there's anybody watching this who doesn't think Lego is amazing yeah what's wrong with you yeah
59:03
but I was at this a second love would be to work for Lego but after working in the studio
59:09
and it's amazing from the outside yeah but it's a job from the inside yeah and
59:15
there's gonna be good days and bad days there's going to be disenchanting days there's going to be days where like this is the best thing in the world it's
59:21
reality versus the sort of expectation and I know like I really love to work
59:27
for Lego because they just sit and build Lego models all day yeah because once you start working in the Lego Design Studio I would be the same as like any
59:34
of the design studio well I remember building um I remember I've got the uh ultimate collector series slave one oh nice and
59:40
you know and I remember building it and just thinking how much effort of building all of these things that
59:47
structurally never get seen oh yeah on the external model I'm going how hard how do you start that and also
59:54
there's the thing as well as like their processes they probably got like a massive tight deadline yeah they they're
1:00:01
relying on old builds that you used to use to do like this thing because sometimes I used to watch a lot of these like um reviews of like Lego kits and
1:00:09
stuff like that and you do get like this game this is just pretty much the same build as this one just with like a slightly different mask it's like yeah
1:00:14
it's probably because they had no time to make it yeah absolutely um you know being on that side but you know is there like their Emulsion
1:00:20
Marines but on a different base yeah yeah well I mean there is you know we could argue that sometimes we we
1:00:26
re-skinned things but then you know it is getting that content out for people to yeah because if you don't reskin them
1:00:32
people will complain that there's nothing coming out yeah it's it's you're always going to find I
1:00:38
think with um creative Hobbies Lego and you know what we do and Games
1:00:45
Workshop and all of that sort of thing I think we are probably some of the most difficult people so please yeah because
1:00:50
I think we have that double problem isn't it as is that we want new things but we also don't
1:00:57
want anything to change at the same time don't we you know I think there's a just something to add to like my experience
1:01:03
yeah I've come to over the years is I am a creative
1:01:09
I was a manager for a time and then I managed creatives being a creative that managed creatives
1:01:15
doesn't always make for the best manager I like to think I did an okay job no one complained and no one left
1:01:21
but certainly the business and a lot of businesses out there have a lot of non-creatives managing creatives and I think sometimes that's where you get
1:01:27
like those weird schisms of like yeah a non-creative we just need this thing doing where the crazy lap but it needs
1:01:33
to be like this and we need more flowers on the side like this it's like no just get it out there and get it done and
1:01:39
sometimes the creators can feel a bit stifled yeah so it's that managing of of someone's ability to make stuff but also
1:01:46
getting it over the line and made into a product and I think there's a lot of in the last probably like five or six years
1:01:52
A lot of people are getting a bit Jarred about that like but I like to make my own thing yeah I remember for a time actually we used to scratch build a lot
1:01:58
of scenery yeah and we were told you're no longer using bolster wood you're no longer using fem card you're using the Citadel products we make because we make
1:02:04
them a few people are like um I'm out because you've stuffed in my creativity and it's just like it's kind of more
1:02:10
creative trying to make something different from that in fact I'd say that's that's a lot more creativity so
1:02:16
yeah I think certainly in the last few years having been a creative that manages I understand creatives but yeah
1:02:24
you get those non-creatives that don't understand creatives which makes a bit of a
1:02:30
but people are getting there we're getting yeah it takes time I say we're getting there I'm not there anymore
1:02:38
we're getting there are you a creative would you say you're a creative well I
1:02:43
would say yeah I suppose I am I suppose I'd have to say as a creative because you know I could have I cut hair I know
1:02:49
it's not as Daft as that sounds people come in and looking one way and they want to go out looking a different way you know they they come in looking like
1:02:55
they've been living under a bridge and they want to go out looking like somebody who plays for Real Madrid what about me what can you do for me
1:03:02
um I think keeping a choice I think is probably the best [Music]
1:03:08
I think if you kept coming in and then saying things I think you know um am I
1:03:13
pushing my questions if I grew my hair out well we could could you do stuff with that yeah we could maybe Keith Flint you you know probably you know
1:03:20
shaved up through the top like a reverse Mohawk yeah yeah yeah big clean bit in the middle yeah along the sides what do you think I
1:03:27
think right that might be a show in the in the making I think further down cut my hair whilst I paint Toy Soldiers yeah yeah
1:03:33
see there we go well anyway past we know on all the viewers now no Pat's naked
1:03:39
again and he's helicopter on the way behind the camera which is wrap up why why was it olive oil today and not baby
1:03:45
oil I don't know I think I think I think that I've been um I think in the girlfriends are having an Italian meal for dinner okay I think he just wants to
1:03:51
try and smell like the other but the aroma of it was like yeah it's very it's very olivy yeah you should have been
1:03:58
here on when we used to have a rose Memorial Thursdays that was a Wonder
1:04:04
what are we doing to ourselves what are we doing oh I don't know why do we do this too just quite wrap up you said
1:04:10
shall I say what killed me as a manager oh yeah oh yes what actually killed you as a moment in the Army painting team
1:04:16
yeah yeah uh so it wasn't the only painters it wasn't the um
1:04:22
it wasn't the eye painters and it wasn't the photographers what it actually was was we I was managing the photographer
1:04:29
studio yeah and the studio itself had seven six seven different teams in it I
1:04:35
I wasn't allowed to manage a single one of those teams apart from the books and box game guys but I had all the stress
1:04:41
of all their problems I had no budget but each department had a budget so when
1:04:47
the camera broke we had to rely on someone to to fix it and you'd be like this team were like
1:04:52
that's not our problem we're not using that camera it's not our problem it's not but you broke it yeah but it's not
1:04:58
our problem it's not it's not part of our budget so after about I think two three years of that I was just like I've
1:05:04
had enough I just I don't need this extra stress of like managing people I can't manage solving their problems but
1:05:10
not being able to afford or pay for those problems in the worst bit was we had I think five setups but like six
1:05:16
seven teams so you had to like always juggle around these different people and for a time it
1:05:23
was quite fun but then it just got very tedious yeah then quite irritating yeah and then to
1:05:29
the point where like can someone help me I literally have no budget I have people
1:05:35
screaming down my ears because they have cameras that don't work none of you none of you want to pay for it yeah
1:05:41
and you're telling us we're able to reduce our camera setups from this amount to this amount because a health
1:05:47
and safety issue of wires when I've already done this quote for like this High Glide system
1:05:52
which no one wants to pay for but would solve all of that we'll get more camera setups in there well this is the problem
1:05:57
once the rod sets in fact so I mean I pull yourself out the other side yeah I was literally I'd like a thimble and
1:06:03
this and the boat was singing I'm like come on come on it's not working and I just thought and I think as well as like
1:06:10
a knowledge thing I just didn't know enough about cameras to yeah to one care enough to solve it because I didn't know
1:06:16
anything about like because people like go this camera's broken uh can you go and get it fixed
1:06:24
I'll just rely on someone telling me a phone number and I'd ring them okay we've got a broken camera can you fix it yeah four months later it finally gets
1:06:30
fixed so as I said that's just too much and then the job came up with Duncan I was like I like painting I mean I miss
1:06:36
painting I think I could have if that job never came I would have stuck to it yeah I found a way around it because I was doing a pitch to make it as a
1:06:43
photographer studio in its own right where you get work in everyone's like part of the same team and you get working but that never came to fruition
1:06:50
but it just killed me killed me both enthusiastically and just like motivationally I was just like oh
1:06:56
Life's too short I'm literally solving everyone's problems and getting no relief but that's the job of a manager
1:07:02
unfortunate yeah no one likes you no one hates you but everyone needs you but everyone needs you thank you for uh
1:07:09
keeping us on track there pattern much appreciated because uh as a with the bunch of questions I've been firing away
1:07:17
thank you very much bit a bit of a leaping subscribers and watching and
1:07:23
hours it's done rather well since you've turned up it has and you know why do you know why it's done well because you need
1:07:29
to hit that like And subscribe button oh that was slick oh I'm gonna have a go I'm absolutely I'm gonna have a go now
1:07:35
we've got a patreon we do and it's got loads of stuff yeah and tuition with me
1:07:40
oh disco and and you can pile you can I don't know why I'm looking as if it's like a small hole but I am I'm looking
1:07:45
at this oh it is yeah I've always turned around
1:07:51
he should warn us and also you can have your Miniatures rated can't you you can
1:07:56
yes I can now give you feedback on Miniatures uh which if you want it it's useful to to get something I've got
1:08:03
another one there's a Discord we also have some affiliate links in the description as well one for element
1:08:09
games and a German one that's what Continental as we like to see it's got about nine letters you'll see it's down
1:08:14
there it ends in d e there you go thank you very much thank you for subbing it's been amazing to see how
1:08:21
it's gone since PG's been on board thank you very very much thank you bye bye bye bye bye
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