Decals vs Sculpted Detail and No UK Golden Demon

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hello welcome to the peton fees I'm Jeff this is Bella and I'm
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Patrick how are you Pat I'm all right how are you I'm all right thank you nice right I'm going to put this very lump
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down go see you in a minute the downside of of recording at the table we thought we'd throw it back um I miss I missed
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the table um but the downside the big downside is he can't really see the dog
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limited Bella yeah yeah I can see the dog depends on interviews and whatnot you might be end up back on the sofa we
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we'll should be around intermittently yeah maybe if we have treats you might just see a pop her head popping up in
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future to grab something yeah right then so uh the main Crooks of this
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show has been let's get straight into it yes has been the release of the Dark
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Angels Terminator box oh yeah which is called what are they calling it Deathwing assault oh yes get straight to
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the point doesn't it yeah yeah yeah so so we've uh we've had the Box we've had a bit of a look through it um we're not
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going to really do an unboxing because people have seen all that before yeah cuz them lucky Devils that get at alien
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us I've I've done a good job of uh of doing that for you but we have had a bit of a sitting look through it and it has
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provoked some questions hasn't it yes it has um because you get two Terminator
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kits mhm and you get your Knights as well uh but you get two upgrades Bruce
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yes and in the upgrade sprs are some sculpted shoulder pads with your
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Deathwing little symbol on there yeah and you also get your transfer sheet but
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you don't get transfers to put on Terminator
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shoulder pads yes so they seem to be sort of pushing you down the the
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sculpted on detail route you still have
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the termin uh the the shoulder pads from the normal Terminator kit so you can just put those on but like this is my
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first uh sort of like Deathwing purchase I'm not flush in uh Dark Angels
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decals yeah um but then like I've got a few from buying other Space Marine bits and Bobs but um I thought it was
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interesting this the decal verses sculpted on detail debate well it's a
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funny one isn't it because they aren't actually um Dark Angel kits like um Imperial
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fists if you will outsides of characters and so on um there isn't that much of
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them you you really need to be I don't get wrong I know most people who wanted one could get one we talked about this
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before you really at the moment have to dip into Leviathan to get Dark Angels
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because they're on their transfer sheet but they don't have um they don't seem to have a particularly extensive amount
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of options as to where to be able to get one yeah it's a bit different from um it's a bit different from black
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Templar where black Templar um did a very nice upgrade sprew yeah uh which
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came with some mold and shoulder pads as well um but was very much geared towards
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I would say um towards the idea of doing sergeant and or the equivalent of
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Sergeants and things so because the problem you got even further with Rank and file it was a bit n problem you've
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got even further with black templers is they they don't have a squad shoulder
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pad both shoulder pods acrosses they don't they they denote through uh depends on how invested you
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get in them you can change what Squad they are by what stripe they have around their shoulder pad oh right okay yeah I
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like the red trim and yeah so you have that but they don't so they don't have a
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lot of um they don't have a lot of other options so you ends up using a lot of shoulder pads if you're doing both show
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if you're doing them the standard way both shoulders but what I'm getting at here in the black templar's defense is the
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decal sheets are really good yeah they're very extensive um and the other
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thing as well if you are if you are just about to start collecting black Templars
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um the great thing about black Templar um is that um unlike a lot of the other
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Space Marine logos um Games Workshop can't put an IP on the
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Templar cross because it's obviously hundreds upon hundreds of years old so if you are about to just start
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collecting black Templar uh I I can name him because he's he's not doing that illegal is uh mighty
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brush Luther the mighty brush does some really nice black template um does some really nice black quite indepth black
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Templar uh decals and also as does our friend sander uh scumbag Customs scumbag
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Customs who does amazing decals across the board and we probably he do mention him a hundred times but he's really
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really good as well so the cross is quite a good one for that but you can't
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really do a you can't really do it on the SL asion of uh Dark Dark Angels
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really because it's a very unique looking thing with the Broken Sword and the wings and whatnot yeah so yeah it's
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a weird one where do you where do you stand with detail the sculpted on detail versus
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versus decals as someone has started doing some drilling next door hopefully that doesn't come through the mics too
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badly um it's a weird one really because I started out with black
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Templar when I was making this black Templar style Army for my son is that the way I cheated me way round it was
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yeah I only gave one molded shoulder pad out and I used the squad element for the
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other one because they sort of Leaning into that black Templar thing but not fully going for it so doubled my number
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of pads okay and then I still ran out and I thought do you know what there is
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only so many times I financially can really dip into going and buying
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more uh upgrade sprws and buying more Crusade squads for or even um uh saw
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brethren for the sake of I'm all I was almost buying a bits box you know what I
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mean instead of you know so you know it's not financially great but I'm now
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personally starting to lean more into um into decals because as everybody's imagine
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that you have uh when it comes to experts and painting um you've got called to paint and I'm pretty much just
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right up there with them of course you Henry hry like that so um uh Henry uh in in been serious
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about it Henry has with the new Terminators for for Dark Angels hasn't
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is either shaving the Shaving the designs off or he's using uh Tates that
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don't have them on already and he's um and he's doing this because he thinks that your ability to manipulate a
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transfer into looking chipped and weathered and staining it and whatnot is easier to do with a decal than it is to
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do with a molded one and I'm increasingly starting to feel like that myself I was going to get myself
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some black Templar doors from Archie Forge for a land Raider that I'm going to
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build yeah and I'd had these previously for a repulser and I put them on and I
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really liked them I thought they looked really great it saved loads of effort with regards decals and now I don't like
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him and O I've got a man they staying on I'm not doing anything about it I don't like him I'm about to build uh build
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another repulser and I nearly went back and went right doors for them and I thought no do you know I'm not goingon
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to I'm gonna um I'm going to go decals because I think the chipping effect and
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all of that looks just looks better so I'm I'm not I'm not going to so I'm was
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very strongly molded and all of that do someone doing
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it all for you in advance was great and I'm finding myself now starting to slide toward gards that's probably where I am
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interesting yeah I like my experiences with it when I when I first started and
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I got my first Space Marine SL like I like first started when I was at
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workshop and all that sort of stuff I think I was very much Pro sculpted on
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detail cuz I tried to do some decals and
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not not knowing what to do it's like oh water slide transfers yeah I kind of vaguely remember cut them out wet them
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put them on they look crap why Happ why hasn't it gone around the shoulder pad properly and all that
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sort of stuff and then when you if you I don't know if they
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still do it now I presume they do you get when you start working at against work you get this little starter box and I got a dread and then that um three
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Marines and the paint set yeah um that you get and they have sculpted ultramarine Sher pads they do yeah
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that's right yeah and I painted one of them and brought it into the office and I was oh it's my first Space Marine and people were like oh whoa you freehanded
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the chapter symbol I like no I didn't it was it was there ready and I was very
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much Pro sculpted on detail uh to begin with cuz I think it's it's
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easier than fafal transfers and this was before I knew about micro set microsol
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and and all those various bits and pieces so I was very much Pro I think it
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adds it just makes them look like like I'm building the the regular Terminators
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from this box at the minute and with the upgrade sprew you know you you got a
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feather on the gun you've got the Deathwing symbol on the shoulder and I look at it and go yeah that's Deathwing
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yes before I've painted it it it looks like it's a dark angel Terminator which
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is a plus I think um less steps involved which I think is a plus um so I think
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and and it does look really cool as as the more I carry on I think I'm I'm sort of like and well I think it was Maverick
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paint he did a a sh on oh this is how I do decals mhm and I followed that and I
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have got good results on I think it was on some of the IR Warriors that I did a while ago oh yeah yeah but it's quite
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like a it's quite a process I don't think I think you can skip a few out if
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you've got a really good Matt varnish um but I was putting a layer of gloss varnish on putting the transfer
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on well no oh I'm I'm forgetting I'm forgetting it all so gloss varnish let
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that dry for ages as I found out recently um putting preparing the surface with
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with with some micro set putting the transfer on putting microl over the top
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of that yes glossing over it and then matting over it yes so that is six steps
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yes whereas I could go oh contrast red
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done yeah so it's a faf I have had um people
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say just gloss it I think Richard Gray says just use micro set yeah he doesn't
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he's he's not a believer in microsol um don't gloss it again just Matt it
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down so that's like three steps I think something along those lines I'm yet to try it because I'm always nervous that
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if I like I I could just [ __ ] it up but like AK ultramat is insane it's a really
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great really good varnish um and um oh
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there was another one oh they they do uh water plus and that sort of stuff um
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Insta insta yeah or instar instar yes um they do a really good M varnish as well
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so I've used that and and and that's fantastic um we have mentions in star in a while they had a great fantastic
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familyowned British yeah which is lovely you know I'm I'm you know don't get me wrong I'm
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I'm very happy to to buy things from wherever in the world it's it's best but it's nice to have something that you
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know is sort of you know in the UK but yeah they make some great stuff as well
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so I so I I putting on decals is a faf done right they can look absolutely
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incredible uh done wrong with that process as I found out with when I tried some airbrushing recently was that just
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like melted all the way back through to the plas um and uh destroyed some of my
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Miniatures and they had a bath in some paint stripper but I I do really like I I'm I'm
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certainly going through my streaking Grime phase at the moment I think I'm quite enjoying weathering and and
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chipping and just cuz I make loads of mistakes when I'm painting that I'm like I just turn that
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into weathering um and you can get away not being as neat and and and
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that's s stuff whereas I think maybe it comes from a point of view of of uh just
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my my sort of inexperience poking through is I wouldn't I wouldn't think that I
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could make chipping like look as good on a sculpted um yeah sculpted piece and
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then I mean decals are way more available has there been sculpted Dark
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Angel shoulder pads Deathwing shoulder pads before uh I don't know I know this
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isn't the first um upgrade sprw for Dark Angel since primaris they have had on
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before but I must be honest and can't say I remember what was on it um I think the thing is is I think
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you've also got to um spare a thought because there is plenty
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of people who play chapters of Marines out there that don't get any option to this all yes yeah and you know and you
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feel like you know we're sitting here going oh you know which do I prefer best and you know there's some poor Raptors
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player there probably sitting there going yeah well I've only got one bloody option and they've only just started giving me transfers thank you very much
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so um so I I bought some because GW don't make flesh Terror
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transfers I don't think they don't make at the moment they don't know many moons ago many many moons ago some people will
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remember this when you used to buy a specific box that was blood angels or
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Dark Angels or whatever it was yeah many many moons ago the trans transer sheet also used to have transfers on it for
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some of the successors oo and flesh teror used to be on with the blood angels oh
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okay all right that's interesting so yeah in my and I'd still like to at some
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stage I think I think I quite like to instead of painting armies I might do like War bands yes might have maybe a
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couple of armies but lots of War bands so quicker and easier to paint and and probably more interesting like videos
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and things like that well you never know we might eventually who knows start to lean into team cuz you can play it and
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then you can have 10 of what lots of tens of things can't yes yes um and I
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really wanted to paint um a bunch of flashh Terrors and uh I think infernal
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brush had he did a heavy metal like flashh Terror Terminator and it just it
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looked incredible and I definitely wasn't going to try and copy that but wonderful inspiration um and I was like
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right transfers can't find any and I bought some third party transfers and um
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they must have been misaligned in the printing because there was this yellow fringing yeah around everything so I
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bought loads of transfers enough for kind of like a leviathan box of Marines and there was yellow fringing
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around the buzz saw and then the teardrop as well I well I can't use those but then I found uh well somebody
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somebody sent me I should say uh a link to some 3D printed versions that you could put on on shoulder pads and I was
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like [ __ ] and the quality of those was was better than the transfers like third
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party transfers like I've never had any issues with uh mighty brush never had any issues with scumback Customs but
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this didn't come from from those guys yeah the scum Customs flash teris um
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sheet with a thing of beauty there some amazing stuff on there yeah those those came through as well uh after I'd
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already ordered the 3D printing and but and they were exceptional so um I mean yeah maybe that's another video in
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itself well I've got um because I sort of started to go down this weird Rabbit
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Hole as I always do when it comes to um Badges and rank and who has what in this
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Space Marine Army i i i i increasingly set out a a plan of like going if you're
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this you get that if you're this rank or that you get the other so I have got some molded funly enough they're not
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molded shoulder pads they are just molded symbols okay of black Templar
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crosses to be fair that are actually already uh preed and yes yes same
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as yeah pop go the monkey oh right done them and I am putting them on all the
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Terminators and what was really nice as well with them is that the the cross is actually just the right care to also fit
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on the knee of the Terminator Captain as well because I wants to look very Grand
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and very very tempered so he's got the cuz obviously all have noticed cuz
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you've built loads them lately Terminators have two variants of knee don't they where they actually have a knee cap or it's just a long Shield that
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comes up over the knee well the the captain has the second option so the the
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the cross would fit on there and look quite cool so yeah it's it yeah I feel sorry for some of
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the other um for the other people who play different chapters it's like sitting there go no that's a nice problem to have cuz I think I think
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things like Imperial fists and stuff it can't be unless someone's really just hoping Games Workshop doesn't come
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looking at them it can't be that easy laying your hands on um yeah fists in circles for show on Marine shoulder pads
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I'm sure someone's probably doing it until such a point in time as they get told to stop but um yeah yeah so you
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know if you're um if you're an imperial fist player you only place you ready to get muled shoulder PES on your
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characters so yeah so so you are going to have to go if you want that sculpted
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uh Dale you are going to have to go third party aren't you yeah um or yeah or just
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two transfers yeah so I think I think at the minute I currently today I might feel
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differently after I paint all of those I'm like sced details amazing transfers are [ __ ]
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um I think I'm currently in the decal Camp right
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because I'd feel more confident I can make them look how I want to mhm because
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I don't hold that much faith in my skill as a painter having that perfect shape
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already exist um takes takes the work out for me granted you know the perfect
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shape exists on the shoulder pad um but
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if I was weathering it and chipping it up I don't know maybe you could take a take a knife or a file to it and carve
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carve some chunks out or something I might have a play um might have a play and and see what see what it's like but
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currently decal Camp shall we see how our patrons voted yeah absolutely right before we do though just like to say
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since the black Templar that's got to be one of the best um upgrade sprws I think
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I've seen I love the fact it's got a book that can go on generally a book you normally see on the front of uh land
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raisers at the door and things like that yeah or maybe even for um well I was going to say for L Speeders but L
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Speeders have took a a bit of a nose dive of since oh have they what's it with land speed diversion what's up with
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L Speeders well well well may not really because the old land Speeders used to be very much a raven Wing thing and I know
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they'll probably we haven't looked in the new codecs yet I'm sure they still are but they used to have like a um used
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to have like a commander of the Raven Wing who had his own who had his own um
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um land speeder with a big book on it and stuff like that I think you know some of that might be the idea of going
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back to that but I don't know and but I think it's very sad that if you want are a raven Wing fan that is literally just
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one set of feathers for your bike you're going that's either going to be a really expensive upgrade to do all of your
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bikes like that it's nice that to do badges for the bikes though or fingers crossed or do bikes for Raven Wing um
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yeah which would be cool if they do I think that would be the better option but it's a really slce sprew though but yes let's see what our uh patreons are
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saying about the whole so we did a poll and sculpted on detail versus decals um the
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winner with 65% of the vote yeah to
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34 that doesn't add up see 1% don't know somebody
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abstained don't care um he's uh sculpted on detail out
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and out winner um and we got a bunch of comments um oh good because I asked I
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asked for people to to to say why um I also I've Just Seen on my doorbell that
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the post is outside so I might have to run downstairs in a second if he rings the doorbell um okay so John says decals
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because you can uh use them for what you want instead of being locked in for instance I'm doing uh the space Wolf
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combat Patrol as wolf Spears which means all those black main shoulders and I
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will be back momentarily okay and we are recording again
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uh I've got a box of as I hide our address so I don't dock myself space
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Crusade uh yeah I'm looking forward to opening yes indeed okay yes so uh space walls
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wol Spears which means all those black main shoulder pads are going into my bits box on that note I wish games work
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shop would let you order decals for the different armies individually yes they absolutely should yeah it can't be that
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hard to put the different chapters craft worlds or whatever as uh print on demand
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they have all the assets already yeah well the thing there as well again going
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back to the good old days and and I'm and and I haven't looked at Space Wolves lately so you please feel free to go no
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actually you're wrong but again back in the day in Third Edition space Wolf codec cuz that's what I used to play
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every company of Space Wolves had a different badge okay which was the the
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the sort of Badge of their leader it's not just like third company badge or
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this bump badge it was like the badge of your it was the heraldry of your boss okay and um and they used to do on space
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Wolf on the space Wolf decal sheet would do all of the companies oh right and then weirdly just over time black m even
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though we you know bear in mind he's not the chapter Master but here's one of the of the the sideon black head black wolf
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head increasingly just became the one that was it was like it was the space Wolf equivalence of ultramarines you
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know you just kept whenever you got a space Wolf box you all had that one yeah and then eventually as far as I
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understand it they all the other ones just fizzled out which is such a shame yeah and
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um and and so I I understand what uh our patreon there is saying is the fact that yet he's just haven't taken all other
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ones and stick them in a box and go not ready for me you know that's the sad thing I think sometimes with um with
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Games Workshop when with with this is this whole thing is is that they make a big thing of going you know in stories
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and art and all the rest of it and background that they've built up over a long periods of time different guys
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doing this and different badges for that and then go ah but we don't actually make them you know yeah and it was nice CU I had a real winge over Raptors being
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something that Games Workshop often used in art and one that and then didn't support them and then they thenit which
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I personally got it wrong and thought Raptors were being supported because in my mind I made what is now a poor
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prediction was that they were going to become the the scouts for kill team yeah
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but then it was interesting that they didn't just go ultramarine they actually did go ravengard so which was cool yeah
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so I do feel I do feel for him because it's it has been a bit of a left the liks for space WF players yeah yeah I I
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really would like I think um Forge will do some trans for kits don't they yeah
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still I think so I don't know whether they're increasing now more just becoming the Horus heresy ones but they used to do some really beautiful ones my
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God they w't cheap they're like 20 something pound for a transfer right but they were really nice to be lots of gold
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and things like that so they probably wear more expensive to produce yeah cuz the impression I get with third party
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transfers is you can kind of get away with doing them but
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if if if you look at Mighty brush they used to do the flesh Terrors and and
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they were kind of like and they used to do Raptors and they used to do Raptors the Raptors are now um official official
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so maybe flesh Terror might become as well um but if it's obscure chapters and
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that kind of thing like I mean we are just it would be great if they did everything and gave people all the
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choice ever because that would be wonderful but yeah it is it is an unrealistic option it if that was
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somebody's first kit and like I think for beginners sculpted on DL just is better oh yeah by far in the way yeah um
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I think if that was someone's first kit they're not going to open it and go oh well I've been watching all these Cult
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of paint videos and I really want to do all these transfers cuz then I can weather them make them look how I like
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we're approaching this as as um people already in the hobby I guess um yeah
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yeah it would be great to have all of the uh all the assets and everything I I think that would be great um yeah so
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Stephen says I voted decals because I a gives me more flexibility um of course
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could just do the sculpted details separately so they could be stuck on where needed I think like I guess that's
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what the upgrades sprs are what I don't like about the upgrades sprs is they're
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quite expensive they're usually about 25 quid aren't they they are yeah and if I
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wanted that just for the Terminators I'd get five shoulder pads
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I'd have the the plasma gun and a sword and a few of the little bits yes and
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that would be it mhm um so if I was trying to Kit out and again it's quite Niche isn't it
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if I was trying to do just Deathwing and just have a Deathwing Army which I know people do yeah yeah like I've gone I've
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gone with the shoulder pads for this box but if I then wanted some more
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having transfers on them and then sculpted onail on others might be a little bit like it look like I think it
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would probably annoy me yeah and also the sad thing is as well is that none of these none of the Terminator shoulder
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pads in here are you can't do any conversions for Knights using them
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because these aren't the Knight ones cuz the knights don't have like a halo around the top of the yeah they do yeah
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yeah so that so it doesn't it gives you Deathwing Terminator shoulder pads which is great
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but it then doesn't give you night on so your options are but then again I suppose the IDE is going well you'll
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have a night kit but if he want to try and design your own nights kit through through um through conversions it
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wouldn't be mely helpful for you in this kit although like I say I do think it it is still a really really really really
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nice kit that they've done though yeah but um you they do sort of have you by by
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the nads of bit when it comes to certain things games work sh yeah it's like um
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the transfer sheet that comes with which is great that they do it they do one at all but transf sheet that comes with the
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black templers is the one that has for on their upgrade kit is the one if I remember rightly and I think I do is the
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one that has black Templar Tech Marine Badges and black Templar Apothecary Badges and stuff like
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that are all in that one yeah so um again they'll they if they don't get you
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one way they'll get you another won't they so yeah what else we got yeah so uh decals
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are good due to abundance and EAS abuse uh but can't beat sculpted details for a better visual um so that's what Russ
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says so yeah that's a good point I think again like unpainted you can look at something and go like if I put a normal
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Terminator there and You' be like what chap is that I don't know SC it on detail you know what it you know what it
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is even in the gra you can tell uh both have their place decals are more practical for gotting a range of mour
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Shy's uh painted up and on the table but when it comes down to the look of well
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painted sculpting on detail that can't be beat I don't know I think I'd uh I think
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I'd beg to differ there I think I think I've seen fight yeah I think I've seen
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travor is another name that comes to mind he did um when they packaged the
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blade guard Miniatures with the first release of the lion yeah he did um he
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stripped some Shields all the way back and battered them and then quarted them into like a red like a red and a cream
30:37
sort of thing and then put decals on them yeah and really hammered the detail on them and they looked really really
30:43
good I I personally think that yes a molded shoulder pad looks lovely but I
30:49
think the flexibility of a decal is far better I think personally yeah I
30:55
guess I comes down to your skill set a lot of it doesn't it yeah I've heard it before I think it was uh Mr Gray saying
31:04
that the blank spaces that you get on Terminators like your shoulder pads and like your big panels and all that sort
31:11
of stuff if you if you left that space as a
31:16
as a as a confident competent painter uh which is an understatement for the likes
31:22
of taborian and and Richard Gray you can show off your skill
31:27
and put that in there whereas if there's loads of detail that's actually maybe a
31:33
bit easier for like novice painters like myself cuz you're painting the detail and it looks a bit more visually
31:39
appealing whereas if I did a i Terminator or whatever with a shoulder
31:46
pads that I didn't didn't put anything on there but then they be like well it's just a big yellow shoulder pad with you
31:52
know a crappy Edge highlight on it like it yeah so is
31:58
interesting yeah I think it's easy for as much as uh I am team transfer I think
32:03
it is easy for Richard Gray to be able to say oh it gives you space to be able to pull not only a bullet a bullet a
32:09
bullet hole but one with all of the cracking and spider webbing around it like he did with that death Terminator
32:16
painted a few months back yeah yeah that is um I'd love to try that um and see if
32:23
I could get any like if someone looked at the marine and went oh did you use Richard Gray's thing for
32:29
that like just to it to be look almost like it it's comparable is
32:37
obviously like the quality would never be there but um yeah cuz he does a lot of stippling and and like the the dry
32:43
brushing sort of oh like wa like a little spider on his
32:49
arm you got me be cracked over actually oh oh is he
32:55
a that's it and the sculpted detail it has to be like pre- cracked or you have to go in and carve it out don't you if
33:01
you want that sort of thing so here's one for you love the look of sculpted details but black black
33:07
Templar scheme has made it an absolute misery to paint decals much easier to
33:13
work with but just don't look quite as nice as a crisp 3D detail so saying that painting all of the yeah all of that
33:20
sculpted detail is a pain in the ass yeah I think as well I think as you you know I think um I was thinking about it
33:26
when you said earlier I'm no I'm not one I'm not a person to give anybody really good advice for building an army but I
33:33
think if you are doing that long winded process of the of the transfer of the decal yeah if you're doing that I think
33:40
the thing to do is don't try if you paint a squad of 10
33:45
men don't do it after the after each man just wait till all 10 are done and then go all them all you know production line
33:53
don't need do all all of the varnish all of that and I think that will take some of the hell out of it instead of going
33:59
I'm going to do it individually after every single one cuz I think that's that's the way Madness lies I think yeah
34:04
yeah yeah yeah definitely um yeah both are good I like decals because they remind me of doing air fix when I was a
34:10
kid and if done right they look Ace uh I've been using a lot of decals on my Legion imperialis models and it's been
34:15
working great the transfers for the shields on the C Sigma models were also amazing I haven't seen those I have to
34:22
check them yeah um yeah that said when I buil my black Templars I use 3D printed
34:28
crosses for the shoulders so I do think there is a place for each broadly i' say that decals are perfect for generic
34:34
models while the uh sculpted on details make the kit look like it was that one
34:40
faction all along so yeah on a side note GW should suck it up and start selling
34:45
mic set micol in stores I think the they're never going to sell anything that's not branded as
34:52
them is it absolutely not no I think I think the the problem sometimes s is is
34:58
it's very nice that they do nicely designed motal shoulder pads and their ones designed to go that looks
35:04
like it should be on a captain it's nice got a nice piece of rope around it or it's got something on it and it's lovely
35:10
that they do that but then it's some but it also means that if you to pick some
35:16
of the um standard uh HQ choices that we've got
35:22
behind us you have to pick some of them some of them have the shoulder pad is molded straight onto the arm yeah and
35:29
then next thing you know if you go if you then make the decision of going I'm going molded shoulder pads for my cool
35:36
looking Heroes you couldn't use any push for Anything Could you no You' got to sit down and start next thing you know you've got players on the standing
35:42
you've got players and a scalp out time to hack it all off smooth enough to then put the lovely molded shoulder pad that
35:48
come on your 25 pound kit on it and then it's the place that you're going well a natural fact by the time it's finished
35:53
that Captain's cost me nearly bluming 50 to me him look more like a black Templar or or whatever it may be so it's it's a
36:02
really weird one I I I and it's one of those ones where you know you want to go all Games Workshop sneaky so and so but
36:08
I also think I think they're doing their best to help you yeah but I also on some level don't think there perfect answer for it really no no I mean it's I think
36:16
it from Reading uh from reading all of these is it it purely depends on where
36:24
you're at and what you're doing and it's very specific to the person I think
36:29
isn't it I think some in some ways it'd be lovely to have I think it'd be lovely to have so much one or the other that
36:36
you never have to sit down and go oh you know go there is just so many shoulder pads for everything that you need or
36:42
there is no shoulder pads for what you need that you're everybody's getting a decal and it's as simple as that yeah
36:48
yeah I mean this this could be great I mean yeah this is where like you your 3D printing comes in clutch isn't
36:55
it cuz they could do I mean if gam Workshop wherever to adopt anything like
37:00
3D printed take that off the table um I think I I think that would be fantastic
37:07
for them to go right anything like upgrad sprs could
37:15
could disappear and and you could walk in and go oh can I
37:21
have 10 Deathwing symbols for Terminators yeah could I have 15 just
37:29
for normal Marine shoulder pads yeah and then you've got all of that flexibility they don't have to make the stocks it
37:35
could be printed on demand I think that would be like a really cool a cool way of doing and the thing is is the problem
37:42
isn't it is that there's just so much like if you look at this so many options which are great like this has got gravis
37:48
on it which is cool it's got standard Marines on it it's got Terminators on it and then um is it this one or have I
37:56
just been looking at it or was it another one I was looking yes it's also got um the Cutaway fobos shoulder pads
38:02
yeah which is lovely and you go and that's all great but then what it does is it leads you down that Blum an awful
38:08
rabit hole isn't you go do you know what I'm fob BOS I'm I'm I'm bading all the faux boss with these yeah and then you
38:15
go oh andang on a minute I've got a 10-man squad of infiltrators and I've
38:20
got a 10man squad of Inc casers and then there's them three left tenants have got that way yeah F BOS and there's that
38:27
captains next thing you know you've spent like nearly 100 quid
38:33
deep that's the problem is when you decide and this is what gets me when you decide in your little head Cannon of
38:40
uniformity yes you can just see you can just hear the cast register till tinging
38:46
tinging away as you start I'm doing all of this yeah oh yeah [ __ ] that means 35
38:53
bloody shoulder pads of whatever you know what I mean that's expensive isn't it it gets really really expensive you
38:59
know so if you imagine there was to be a new upgrade spew for something like
39:04
uh ravengard who you know if you're playing them quite akin to how they're meant to be played that's meant to be
39:10
like quite a lot of faux boss okay next thing you know and you're going I'm not using decals I'm using this the next
39:17
thing you know you're your your Raven guard Army cost even more money than
39:23
should do because you've got so much of this you know very impactful it would look really cool but that's like say
39:29
that's the problem being is is when you when you decide on your uh on the hill
39:34
you dying on based on shoulder pads if it's if you go the molded rout it can end up costing quite a lot of money I
39:40
think down the line it's very Niche Hill to die on isn't it very sh even in 40K
39:45
it's very Shield to die but um yeah
39:51
and you know and and and don't get me wrong I think the decal sheet that does come with Deathwing assault has some
39:57
great stuff on it as well especially really good transfers looking at the size of some of them they're very
40:03
blatantly designed to go on on land Raiders and bone colored bone colored land Raiders for Deathwing with a really
40:09
nice red trans looks really good like I I would have preferred the decal sheet in here to just have the Deathwing
40:20
um transfers on yeah um or more like
40:26
because there's not an appropriate amount so you have to go sculpted don't you so yeah it does force your hand
40:33
doesn't it yeah so if they'd given you the
40:38
option uh well I'm glad they they did because you know we've been chatting about it for an hour or so uh but it's
40:45
yeah something I'd never really sort of thought about before and then now I'm like oh if I did have an army and there was a mismatch what could be like the
40:51
narrative reason um You' be like these are just the reserve boys their are
40:56
stock and it had to be painted on well I'm trying to my way around it is I try
41:01
to give molded black Templar shoulder pads to sergeants yeah so they all get
41:07
one so then they get a nice Red Cross which donates the same as their helmet because my son's Army lives somewhere
41:12
between following codc ultramarine in regards to red helmets and white helmets
41:18
well that sort of Veteran thing and then out a bit black Temple and they've got a
41:23
black Templar thing going on so red red fed crosses for Sergeants I feel like
41:29
such a nerd even though even within being in ner culture does does your son know any of this no no can we stop
41:37
saying it's your son's Army is it just is it just yours it's my son's Army I
41:43
it's his army I just happen to be the it's a bit like you know you designed it
41:48
and painted it and came with the law I may have played it a bit more than him but that's point but
41:55
it's his army yeah I feel exposed sorry Jeff I've done you
42:02
dirty I know but um uh you know a bit like but you know like when you know like when um
42:09
designers dress people for the Oscars yeah I'm a bit like that I
42:14
think go yeah I have put all of the work and effort but it is yours yes even though people will when they say what
42:21
are you wearing they won't say my dress they'll say Dior oh yeah what are
42:26
playing uh the Army me dad completely lutely took command off and I had no
42:32
saying well he did say he did say no no faces right he tried yeah and I and
42:37
primary oh oh right he said no faces why would you not
42:42
wear a helmet and I went yeah you're absolutely right and then started gluing heads on with faces cuz I was just like they look
42:49
better yeah I haven't put any faces on my Terminators yet actually I'm I'll have to do one or two um I've got a
42:55
couple in the 10 that I've got cuz Leviathan you know a sergeant with a breather yeah I put I put that on
43:03
him and I think in the the the multi pass I think I might have used two I
43:09
might have done you know but um yeah it's um yes so yes so I was saying yes so
43:17
Sergeant red red mold cross officers pop goes to Monkey Cross okay
43:24
so the molded one for them yeah and then every body else now I'm trying to only give where possible give transfers to
43:29
right it a bit Rank and file quite as well looked after yeah what a narrative decision your son has made yeah he's
43:35
such a smart lad he is yeah yeah yeah well to be fair though I paints of
43:42
them he comes and he go what what are you painting I go painted do this and he goes oh that's great thanks Le brilliant
43:48
by the time I finished his army you be married with kids and I'll go there you go go well me to do that I got time to
43:53
do that yeah I've got a job yeah yeah yeah yeah I've been painted that
43:58
long oh that's so funny yeah it's just never ending like you'll always buy more
44:04
models and do you know what considering for somebody who hasn't actually put any
44:09
effort into collecting a Space Marine arm he's got a terrible pile of shame I think he's getting out of hand
44:15
and I think he needs raining in as his father yeah yeah yeah terrible awful you should take some of those models and
44:21
paint your own Army um yeah don't encourage me because the next thing i' be doing Army yeah yeah there you go
44:28
yeah and you know the best of it is I'm painting away at this and my poor death guards are just sitting there in the Box
44:34
unloved are they um are they in a better place uh no they're bloody not in a
44:40
better place in in a lot of ways they add they um they had a really poor lvo
44:47
okay and then managed to gain points on their barrage tank they being the uh the
44:52
their plague Bas crawler oh yeah got a big slapped with the big Nerf when it came to points oh oh right I don't know
45:00
whether I'm now starting to wonder whether meta Works two ways you know if you like had a really really good lvo
45:05
yeah and they go oh you were a bit too good there so going to have to probably tweak you a little bit and sort of level
45:11
you out a little bit you think they also go you were awful 20 points on them
45:19
T it's like you were too good you got to be punished I get it and you go you were awful you're getting punished as well I
45:25
saw the screen got from metawatch and cuz I think they Tred to keep everything in 45 Oho 45 to 55% yeah and the only
45:35
two that were out of that were at the top and it was necrons and Elder yes so
45:44
everything else seems to be was generally as far as Games Workshop are
45:50
concerned okay yeah so I wonder if cuz I I've seen admech of they've been in a
45:58
spot of bother for for quite a while uh all the way well no they they had their
46:03
time in the sun in ninth yes they did briefly they were amazing in N yes I
46:08
think they won oh that camera's dead um that went early yeah it did yeah I think
46:14
it it must have overheated again that camera always overheats it's terrible these two bombproof um so it's just I'll
46:22
I'll just lean into your closeup okay JP Shu over no no
46:27
um yes they had their time in the sun very very brief time in the Sun and then
46:32
I think the Nerf and and they've said that they've probably overdid it with the points and stuff like that and I saw
46:40
something on Reddit recently someone like oh I've been playing am for a while and I'm really like losing the will to live with with the Army what can I do
46:49
and I I I just saw the headline and was like oh poor guy and then I saw that screenshot shortly afterwards and I'm
46:55
like oh they're probably not going to do a great deal because you're in the yeah the bracket like if they're in that 45%
47:03
they might be at the bottom of it but they're in yeah I I wonder if they would make any changes Imperial Guard got a
47:09
kicking again and and they're really not having a great time with it all right um
47:14
you know I want to use that thing of going all of the armies that haven't got all of them armies that haven't got a codex yet are doing poly but it's not
47:20
true because alari haven't got a coldex yet oh and they're kicking it and black
47:26
Templar haven't got a codex yet and they're having a pretty good they do pretty good right so um but yeah so has
47:32
been a bit weird the sort of um the sort of nerfing things they for Jean Jean
47:38
steel I was listening to it on the way here actually I was listening to Mr orc's tactics oh wonderful and he was
47:45
saying um in an attempt to rectify some of the problems with firing deck you
47:52
know open top vehicles or Vehicles you can fire from in one manner or other they were saying oh the problem being
47:57
over like one shot weapons uh not being able to use them more than once because it's like like
48:03
class as the vehicle the weapon I on the vehicle sort of thing and whatnot yeah and they're going and then doing so
48:09
there is a completely intimate legitimate really useful tactic for Jean stealer CTS that in the process of
48:16
trying to clarify what works which way has completely done away with it a
48:21
tactic for the Jean Ste cut of being on an open truck open to vehicle and throwing bombs out as they go has been
48:28
massiv been mulled you can't sort of by accident in the around sort of way right
48:33
yeah attempt to clarify something they've now done this I don't know maybe come their codex they'll which is
48:39
apparently this summer they might they might figure it out and give it a bit of a go everybody this applies to everybody
48:47
but not you chaps because that's your thing you know what I mean yeah so I don't know if we got more questions on
48:54
uh d CS versus oh uh uh 43 oh wow 44 um
49:00
they quite a few and lots of similar um things and and stuff we discussed but um because there's only two options so I
49:06
guess it's only someone going neither I hate Warhammer um what I want is the Hardcore
49:13
who go neither I paint them by hand cuz I am that good freehand yeah yeah somebody did somebody mention freehand
49:20
I'm not sure um but they sborn when they mentioned it
49:27
oh KY I I would um I would die I know some people put the decals on and then
49:32
paint over them yeah for for for that sort of look I guess it gives you like the stencil and then you can paint it on
49:40
but I think if you if you really Matt it down I I guess that's the ultimate sort
49:45
of is that is that the I don't know I don't know where I where I sat I've never done it what are the benefits
49:52
there is a um there's a really lovely chop um who has a YouTube channel which
49:59
is not he's doing okay but he's not massive and he's called um if I remember
50:04
rightly and I'm sorry if I got this if I've got this wrong I think he's called uh brush and Bol gun yeah and he's uh
50:10
fully enough he's from my neck of the woods and he paints Miniatures to a good standard um I'd say high tabletop
50:17
standard and then you know this thing you go yeah that's that's good that's like if that was my captain on a
50:22
tabletop I'd be quite happy with that it's not something I would potentially be entering painting competitions with
50:28
but as a strong tabletop standard and then he always just Taps it off right at the very end of going and there you go
50:34
and then he goes and now I'll just paint the blood Angel symbol in by hand and you go
50:41
what I'm looking strong don't get wrong strong middle of the roads and then bang
50:47
just to show you that I really can knock out yeah oh that's fun and he makes it
50:53
look dead easy because what he does is he just W's I don't know his name sadly and if you do watch I love your show but
51:01
um W's are got a very good understanding he's got very good understanding of the initial basic
51:07
shape like he knows if you start off doing a cross for Templars and then know right that you're coming off at this
51:13
thing and then fill it all in you know I haven't got the brain space I
51:18
haven't got the brain space to freehand things like that he following following one of his tutorials is that like like
51:24
running 100 me with husin Bol and you're like oh I'm keeping up with him and then he just just looks at you and goes no I'm I'm just going to show you how fast
51:30
I actually am um I'm going to stop jogging now yeah yeah yeah I mean he looks like he's back in back in day when
51:37
he was smashing all the world records he uh like when he broke the 100 meter world record he he looked like he was uh
51:44
just he was celebrating before he got to the Finish Line cele far ahead about 20
51:50
me out wasn't he yeah um so that's good and and I think I think that's really good if if somebody's making tutorials
51:56
and they're painting like within themselves yeah it
52:01
it means that they're doing it to make a great tutorial rather than go I'm
52:06
incredible this is how I do all this sort of stuff um like I I would find it quite hard to follow uh a Richard Gray
52:13
video uh for example um because they're quite long and you have you it's not
52:18
broken up into steps or all that kind of thing so you're watching the whole thing to try and follow along to it um and but
52:25
I don't necessarily watch his videos to to to to go oh I'm going to do that well
52:31
what a problem I have with Richard gry and and we mention him so frequently and Richard got in touch the other we got in
52:37
touch on one the comments the other day when I was talking about when we talking about who'd been our um channel of the year yeah and I said it' been Cult of
52:44
paint I said I really love Richard Gray I said but I feel Cult of paint just but although albeit mildly more accessible
52:51
for my skill set yeah and um Richard great what you mean you can't follow along you know very obviously massively tongue
52:58
and cheek and I think the problem being is I don't already possess the skill set
53:03
to follow along yes you you know what I mean I already know
53:09
I can't stipple like that to follow going oh what did you do oh you did a mixture of a brown and a white and then
53:15
stippled it oh let me just get me stuff out and go no because I already I need
53:21
the basic of most Basics how to stipple along with Richard I hour mepp before I
53:27
can move on to the next I think we we've we found a gap in the market for painters so we we should do we should
53:33
have a if you join our patreon uh there'll be a pack on there and it's do you want to be Richard Gray ready it's
53:40
like it's like couch to 5K couch to 5K before you start doing
53:46
Park runs yes yeah yeah exactly so he like do you watch Richard Gray's videos
53:52
and hate yourself do you want to learn how to follow along his videos hold a
53:57
dry brush like this yeah you know what you know that might be that might be the that might be the Gap in the market for
54:04
us yeah so first thing we've got to do is kidnap Richard gr lock him in here no can't do that
54:13
show us how that works no no because he just he he will very matter of factly go well it's it's
54:20
just you just do it like this I yeah you you just do it like this yeah it's fine
54:25
the worst just bit water such a lovely lovely man I I I really really like to
54:31
have him on the show and he was somebody that mean you had liked from very very early on oh yeah and from pretty much
54:37
when we first started the channel and he um I've always loved him and then when he came on the show I thought he was
54:42
going to have some amazing magic bullet of how this all worked it's just a lot of practice and time and dedication is
54:48
it was that was it apparently was G to go well you know Jeff all you've got to
54:53
do is this and then he was just going you know basically all you've got to do is Jeff is be me for the last 20 years
55:01
yeah is that what I'm going wrong yeah yeah yeah yeah I think I think it was um
55:07
his there was a death card model that he painted in like all non metallic metal
55:13
and all that yeah the one that's the one I F I when I was looking how do I paint death guard I found Richard Gray with
55:19
the um yeah Series 3 Marine Heroes and it was the one holding the plague spir and it
55:26
was that and it was I got to the end of it and thought you've painted what is blatantly a 3D object to the point that
55:33
it looks like a 2d illustration yeah it looks like a paint like you see the the whole thing if it didn't have a base on
55:38
it yeah it would like been painted looks like a painting and um and that I
55:45
remember you saying like he used a what a flesh color for the bronze flesh color to make bronze to make copper and yes
55:52
and at the time I I was very very I mean still haven't tried non- metallic metal like I'd like I'd like to give it a go
55:59
but I know it's something that you have to put like I presume a lot of time in to make it start looking really really
56:05
good um and and you were saying he he a flesh color for copper and at the time I
56:11
was like yeah that's mental and then when when he was on you asked him and he was like just referencing it yeah which
56:19
which it is you're like yeah you're like oh yeah but I likeed his it's funny because
56:26
I I I am not the world's obious say I'm not the world's biggest fan of NMM I
56:32
really like it when I see it done exceptionally well oh his Dante is Dante
56:38
that he's working on for Golden team and golden team is utterly phenomenal and I like it when I see it and then Richard
56:44
Gray very cleverly because people always have put the same shot the same I've shot the cannon across his bow
56:51
always G only looks good in One Direction Dante day didn't he oh here's it from
56:58
the other side just cuz apparently looks good in one way with a skull emoji I saw that and giggled little
57:05
fired from Richard gr but I liked his answer was the fact that he said
57:10
that when you paint in metallics although he said he Paints in metal he Paints in metallics for titanicus
57:17
doesn't he he said yeah he paints it in that but he said and his YouTube stuff he does yeah and he says that but the
57:22
problem is he says is that um he said that it limits my abilities of what I can create if I'm if if the shininess
57:30
and the the Highlight is already being dictated by something comes out of a bottle yeah whereas when he does it from
57:35
building up his way he can get it to look exactly how he wants you know and it it did slightly me go oh you know I I
57:43
more see the point of a a bit more now absolutely this look this is as metal or
57:48
nonmetal or as shiny or as dull as I want it to be yes yeah like the that
57:54
control and because it is a miniature and say if you have done I guess a lot of people in entering
58:02
stuff into golden demon doing like volumetric lighting and and all that sort of stuff on the armor so you're
58:09
implying a direction of light with your painting yeah and oh side note it was it I I was uh I
58:17
think when I was when I was painting my um like Terminator thing I was usually
58:23
you go I'm right handed so if I'm putting a a light Direction on it's up and to the right mhm and from the front
58:31
and then I turned it round and I was like oh well I need to go up and to the left so it's looks similar but then
58:38
again C with paint we talk about them a lot uh Henry was like okay so up and to the right on the front and I'm going to
58:45
do up and to the right on the back doesn't matter that they're wrong because you can only see one side of the
58:51
miniature at the same time and I was like that's a very good point
58:57
uh that's like some of my customers when I show the back of their head in the mirror I go does that look all right they go yeah I'll look but I never see
59:03
it yeah yeah yeah yeah exactly EXA other people do yes yeah um imagine though if
59:10
you put your miniature down and two people looked one h on a minute what are you getting on the front I tell you on
59:15
the back that's not right so I guess in G demon you know that you I guess I don't well I don't
59:22
know I we'd have to we'd have to ask uh someone that does but does everything come from One Direction uh as it would
59:30
if it was like a proper sun or whatever but you've got your volumes of light you've got your implied direction of
59:38
that light if you do metallics you turn the miniature around and it all still
59:44
makes sense but then the highlight of the metallics changes yes um I think I
59:49
think was the explanation that I heard so then it's if you do if you do non metalic metal it all
59:55
changes cohesively yeah at the same time the thing I always find funny a lot of the time especially with stuff like
1:00:00
Richard Grace is when when he does like amazing NMM Miniatures and people go oh
1:00:06
well yeah only works if you look at it from one way and you go like you're going to be putting that on the tabletop
1:00:13
and worrying about where the light directions coming from you either just be amazed to have it on a tabletop or it's going in a glass cabinet somewhere
1:00:19
you'll only be looking at it from the way from angle anyway the artist put it into the glass cab and dictates it
1:00:25
anyway you know what I mean so you know sometimes as somebody who does grumble about NMM a bit um I also go you
1:00:34
know if I had if Richard Gray was to have a kindly paint me an amazing death
1:00:39
guard character and I put it on my table and soone went the lights are something on the other side doesn't I'd be like
1:00:45
really is that what you're looking at that's your problem yeah yeah and and
1:00:52
and that would be and again something we talk about I think like if if somebody puts a model up and they go I put loads
1:00:58
of effort into painting this and I always use the example of to um and I've seen it before where where somebody goes
1:01:05
here's my cool crisis suit that I painted super happy and then someone will say oh I wish I could like this by
1:01:10
hate tail um and I and and because we talked about this with memes didn't we yeah yeah that was it yeah so I
1:01:18
um if if you be like so if you put down like a nonell metal or or whatever and
1:01:24
and and somebody went I wish I could say that's a great paint job but you know I'm very anti non metallic metal or only
1:01:31
works on wrong Ang didn't it like you just I sh up you dick like like hey if it's you as with
1:01:41
anything if it makes you happy and it's legal don't care absolutely right yeah
1:01:46
you know what I mean you do you babes um yeah yeah I'm all for for people uh
1:01:54
doing what doing what they enjoy I'm trying to I'm trying to remember did do have I ever seen Richard Gray doing
1:02:01
freeh hand or does he always just he just he mainly just relies back on the decals doesn't he yeah uh certainly on
1:02:06
YouTube a lot of decals yeah I I for my sins uh I'm not on his patreon so I
1:02:13
can't well I'd love to be on his patreon but I wouldn't get any use out of
1:02:20
it I I get enough self Lo than watching his videos it is without paying for the pleasure yes yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
1:02:27
his his I thought it was bad and now it's cost him extra boun of money a month probably even more bad the thought
1:02:33
his tabletop stuff is is uh incredible to look at anyway uh certainly certainly
1:02:39
for my level when if if he releases well I don't know he may well
1:02:45
have done already uh like stages of development for for Dante that would be something I'd love to watch and see that
1:02:51
come together and just consume all 10 hours of it or however long the video would inevitably be cuz he's keeping it
1:02:58
a little bit on the down low you see it you see little upgrades of it now and then but not a lot because he's also
1:03:04
doing fulgrim isn't he which is uh full Grim ascended so snaky snaky fullrim
1:03:10
snake boy yeah so which I don't know whether both of them are going to the same golden demon or one's going to one
1:03:16
and one's going to another cuzz I think did he say when we recorded with him that he's taking a lot quite a lot to ad
1:03:24
ion he's really sort of going in for it cuz his own criticism of himself was
1:03:30
that quite often he's a bit unprepared and and sort of rush has to rush at the
1:03:36
end and I imagine they'll there'll still be an inevitable like Rush at the end because it is what next month now yes um
1:03:44
so yeah that's going to be quite quite quite tricky but yeah I I haven't seen
1:03:50
the film or how much he's got done of it I I don't know um but yeah yeah God and
1:03:56
Demon not in the UK this year we haven't talked about that yet um I mean maybe that warrants a chat in itself yes
1:04:03
indeed it's a funny one isn't it because I think you know there is paint there is
1:04:09
painting um competitions across Europe because you know golden de is the one most people hold in high regard because
1:04:16
obviously how big a foothold in the Hobby Games Workshop have yeah but there is other ones as well as the um is a
1:04:22
crystal brush so there is are the ones where people end a whole range of very different things so um so you know I
1:04:29
think it is a little bit you know so for me to say well I think it's good that golden demon is going going into Europe
1:04:36
and not having not being in brit is but I also have to go but it's not you know it's not it's not like they're sitting
1:04:43
there and it's the only way they can get Europeans can enter anything they they have got other ones but um I still think
1:04:49
it is good that it's going to uh to spiel I think it's quite cool that it's it's going to get out there it is a bit
1:04:55
weird to think that you could unlike anything else where you normally have a golden demon that I could be on the hot
1:05:01
toys and the Lego stand and then Wander over to Golden demon I find a bit weird
1:05:07
yeah yeah it's not like a go oh the latest phasion of cludo oh look at that new Lego house oh look they've done a
1:05:13
new Boba F foret oh golden demon you know what I mean it's all a bit I find the concept of that a little bit weird
1:05:19
but but I'm not so for it to be somewhere that is like oh I heard Jenga to wild oh golden demon um yeah yeah you
1:05:27
know so it's a bit weird that it is going to to that sort of thing with it being such a mixed uh event as Spiel is
1:05:35
but I'm also I think it's quite cool that it is going there as well I do feel a bit sorry if for people if they've you
1:05:42
know haven't through finances disability time off work family all of the other
1:05:49
potential the reasons that keeps people quite close to their home not having the ability to ENT to a golden demon in the
1:05:55
UK I think I feel sorry for them as well but um yes I think it being out there I
1:06:00
think also being out there on on in events like this I think it's quite cool yeah I'm really excited for Golden demon
1:06:06
because I've not seen one before no so we'll see hopefully all being well we're
1:06:11
a depacon this year so I it like I I consume so much of my miniature content
1:06:19
online look at all these cool Miniatures and you know look on Instagram and and
1:06:24
seeing everything and like you know talking about like non- metallic metal Dantes and and all that sort of stuff
1:06:30
just being at the Las Vegas open and seeing Miniatures that I'd seen before on screen and then in person like squid
1:06:36
Mars like Manta um so so much better in person it is it really is and and you
1:06:43
see the the golden Demon images and quite of well I think always traran does
1:06:49
a sort of debrief and and looks at the images and the winners and all that sort
1:06:54
of stuff and quite often he complains about the image quality and I agree with that sometimes the photography of them
1:07:01
isn't not do them many favors yeah and and and and I've I've looked without having like seen the miniature
1:07:08
in real life I sort of look at it and go and I'm not a competition painter either and and and this that and the other
1:07:14
whole host of things um and I I I go like is that just like I I think of it
1:07:20
from a photographer's perspective how many Miniatures had be entered into golden demon and every single one has to
1:07:25
have their picture taken so they'll have a setup and just be going click right okay next one next one next one like apparently some Miniatures come back
1:07:32
with damage like because they get bumped and stuff and and that's a real shame
1:07:38
um it would like but seeing them in real life compared to photos and all that
1:07:44
sort of stuff God they just so much better I give a real example of where of
1:07:49
of a miniature I've only seen as a photograph and I think the photographed the photograph did lead to some people
1:07:55
sort of go I had little grumbles on on uh on the interweb of people going was
1:08:02
that the thing that won and I think um because I sometimes think if it's quite a small miniature and it's if it's quite
1:08:09
a small miniature on only a roughly standard standard sort of base with you
1:08:15
know maybe on a small PL or something I think sometimes when you see it as a photograph you can go well that's not
1:08:20
got a big well factor and the one I will point out for this was the man skink i w
1:08:25
it a little while ago and I think's in every metal painter now is he really yeah I believe so I think a lot of
1:08:31
people were a bit like oh is that what won and go you're you're judging that on
1:08:37
a big white background photograph with this little tiny little fig you know which is basically you know virtually
1:08:44
lowest common denominator lizard man you can have yeah in the middle of this Photograph and people were a bit
1:08:50
underwhelmed but but I did hear from top level painters I think he even maybe
1:08:56
mened them yet again C the paint yeah had seen it in the flesh and said no you need to you seeing it yeah the the
1:09:05
quality and execution cuz the miniature itself is is just a rank and file
1:09:11
miniature isn't it you're just like quite an unassuming just like um but to
1:09:17
my understanding it was just executed flawlessly and that's why I won and then I think Miniatures that are bigger
1:09:24
the photograph lead Le lends to them better and I'll give you an example of this because it was a a miniature that I
1:09:30
seen first as a photograph and then have since seen in the flesh and the difference between how Wild I
1:09:37
was on photograph and how Wild I was on flesh in the flesh wasn't massively different and that was the scratchbuilt
1:09:43
uh tow bust yeah for of the fire with no helmet
1:09:48
on and it was in photograph I was like oh my good that's phenomenal yes and
1:09:53
then I seen it in the flesh and I was like yeah that's as phenomenal as I remember it I didn't it didn't suddenly have an extra five layers of
1:10:00
impressiveness a little bit impress I've always seen it in the flesh but but I think when you take it down to the tiny
1:10:05
little figure and then you be a big white glaring background you can lose it a little bit I wonder if like cuz Buss
1:10:11
and stuff like the chap is it Tom I can't remember his surname uh has entered like two of those sort of bus
1:10:18
there was an orc and the towel yes and um and did he win with the towel
1:10:24
won he won open didn't he yes but not overall um didn't get the
1:10:29
Slayer sword and then the orc I think came came second or third like still podiumed yes still amazing um I wonder
1:10:36
where like cuz it's scratch Built Well no it's 3D printed but he designed it himself it's based on the IP so and it's
1:10:41
open so anything can sort of go in I wonder like where the line is between it's a miniatur competition um
1:10:49
because the bigger something is the more it sort of interacts with light yeah yeah so well like with that the um do
1:10:55
you not have to put as much detail into the painting I don't know well well I don't know because I've got to be honest
1:11:01
um the way he did it cuz the tow wear like that under like uh leather system before the
1:11:09
helmet goes over the top of it yeah and in photograph I thought it was and then
1:11:15
in the flesh just even that a little bit more so it literally looked like that was just a folded piece of leather that
1:11:21
he put okay the paint you know and I and I think um I think it's a bit I think it's
1:11:28
bit 61 half dozen the other isn't it I think if you um if you're painting big I
1:11:34
think your highlights in certain areas don't need to be as as impressive because yeah once you get big enough
1:11:40
real world light will take over and highlight for you yes yeah and then when you're small you have to force the
1:11:45
Highlight into otherwise it looks very yeah miniature painting you're imitating the way light reacts to something but it
1:11:51
doesn't cuz it's too small small yeah but then I think on the flip side of that is if you're painting like a towel
1:11:57
bust and so on you've got nowhere to hide have you you have know where to hide you can't
1:12:03
bury that into the Shadow and go well I didn't worry about his armpit so much because it would have been in darkness
1:12:08
anyway yeah especially 32 millim it's going to be but when you're that big you you've nowhere to hide anything have you
1:12:15
and I remember everything's everything is on display without bringing it round to myself yet again but I remember my
1:12:21
wife talking with her hairdresser and a hairdresser knowing that I'm a barber yeah and this this this lady used
1:12:29
to cut my wife's hair she said do you not get your husband to she to why don't why doesn't your husband cut your hair
1:12:35
and she said well he always says he's not a hairdresser he wasn't trained as a hairdresser and the thought of women's
1:12:42
hair and trying to deal with how much of it there is terrifies him which is true
1:12:47
and um and this hairdresser said oh she said I can't get my head round that she
1:12:53
said because the thought of Barber and yeah would terrify me and like going in
1:12:58
with a pair of clippers and stuff and my wife said that what's the thing between the way he sees the this and and how you
1:13:05
see the thing and she said well if you Barber and she you have nowhere to hide if you mess it up it's there she says I
1:13:12
could cut the occasional bit of your hair maybe not quite the same length but there's so there's so much volume of it
1:13:19
I can hide a mistake you know and I think and that sort of in weird way sort of lends itself to the whole thing with
1:13:25
miniature painting is the fact if you're working you expose yourself to to
1:13:30
everybody by making something that big you are going to sometimes go he didn't quite get all the way in there you know
1:13:37
yeah yeah I can understand that yeah saying that though the thought of bust if I someone gave me a bust to paint I
1:13:44
think I'd be terrified by it yeah I wouldn't know where to start no um
1:13:50
because I think my brain because it's def I think it must be to some degree having to deconstruct your brain from 32
1:13:57
mil and rebuild it that because a lot of the rules that you because we all do it whether we know we're doing it or or we
1:14:04
we know we're doing it or we don't know it when we're painting at the size that most of us paint has there is a set of
1:14:10
rules that we are to some degree wakening side of yeah and then when you get to that size and then them rules are
1:14:16
now out the window and you have to rethink how things work at that that at that scale yeah there was um cuz AK some
1:14:23
really good books about like we in space vehicles and this that and the other and there was one one at lvo that I was sort
1:14:28
of coveting and it was how how to paint faces um and I looked at it and went oh
1:14:34
I'm going to come back and have another look at that and I'll probably get it but I opened it up and all of the techniques were on busts and I just
1:14:42
thought I don't know how transferable that is to an everyday miniature and I
1:14:47
looked at Elio at exactly the same book when you said to me yeah there's an AK book cuz the other three that you've
1:14:54
bought already are actually really good for fantastic beginner painting spaceships and then more advanced
1:14:59
spaceships and then the third one's called uh land ships which is a lot of things like painting land Raiders and
1:15:05
Dread notes and things like that and orc vehicles and uh and I thought having been impressed by the three previous
1:15:11
books I looked at I thought oh I'll go and have a look that when I get around to it and I did the same I opened it up looked through it and oh no busts no
1:15:19
yeah yeah cuz I I think some of it will be transferable to maybe like an heavy metal face yeah or something along those
1:15:26
lines like the way it interacts with light and and this that and the other and where your lights and shadows are and what's cool and what's warm and blah
1:15:33
blah blah blah blah but you know I I think I that video that Duncan did where he was like here's three p three ways to
1:15:40
paint faces uh you know wash it highlight it again or you know intermediate and then a bit more of a
1:15:46
that has is more relevant for me I think yeah absolutely than looking at this book and go right how can I scale that
1:15:52
down and then i' just like I get it for demonstration purposes or if you are
1:15:59
painting a bus like it's easier to to have like a bigger canvas I guess but and and they looked exceptional the
1:16:04
results were incredible but yeah I looked at it and I was like no for what I want that is just beyond me just um
1:16:11
just flipping back for a second about uh golden demon in the UK do you
1:16:17
think um you know Games Workshop British company and then Games Workshop having a
1:16:24
major foothold and having a very big following in America yeah do you think that there should always be a golden
1:16:31
demon in the UK or do you think it's all right for it to cross the cross the sea
1:16:36
out towards Europe so I think Workshop as it grows will become an increasingly
1:16:41
global company mhm um like they make a
1:16:46
their mission statement is all about making stuff in Nottingham in the UK
1:16:52
yeah it's it's absolutely a shame that there isn't one um and and would be
1:16:57
frustrating for people that have been working towards it assuming that there's going to be
1:17:03
one um because just for people to get up to Nottingham um must be yeah a pain in
1:17:11
the ass like painting coach Lloyd he you know traveled from Wales finished his uh Squad of three in his hotel I think and
1:17:19
and then you know you're most likely taking a day off work and and this that and the other because you is it you put
1:17:24
them in on the Friday and then they release them on the Sunday yeah so something along those so you are you're
1:17:29
forced to be there for all that time you're going to have to take a chunk of time off just even though Germany's you know not too far away chances are you're
1:17:36
getting a flight yeah um so you're going to have another day either the side so that's what five days so you're taking a
1:17:42
week's holiday almost to um uh to go and do it I like it is a shame that it's
1:17:49
that there isn't one um I think there was a lot of criticism
1:17:55
of Warhammer Fest in adepticon last year
1:18:00
I think there was a bit of criticism of how organized golden demon was and
1:18:06
apparently the judges were only selected like the night before or all
1:18:12
right or you know that this is all yeah conjecture and this that and the other
1:18:17
but it it like ninon spoke about it a bit and and traran and stuff that's I think you know but it's ages since I
1:18:24
watched the video so um if they have to take a as as frustrating as it is I
1:18:30
think it's better that if they take a pause and bring it back
1:18:35
better next year then that's better for the Hobby in general I
1:18:41
think like I'd rather they there is a great event that people go to and have a good time at rather than come back and
1:18:48
and complain about it see cuz the and you're right and do you remember a while ago which again caused more controversy
1:18:55
again wasn't it do you remember when they had just the golden demon event at Nottingham yeah and then because it was
1:19:03
in Warhammer World they only accepted you have to limit the numbers and then and tickets for it and any you know and
1:19:10
I we had um from the lovely Facebook group that is Faith and Dam Nation uh
1:19:15
very very talented painted on there an Italian gentleman called Franchesco olivieri he had been working his guts
1:19:22
out for something and then couldn't get a ticket yeah yeah so he his golden demon for that year and then that golden
1:19:29
demon ticket might have been taken by someone that didn't want to enter but wanted to go and have a look at
1:19:35
everything yeah put in like a really a really so I think you know basically painted miniature just as as a way of
1:19:42
getting in yeah yeah or because I thought did they separate the tickets that time I can't remember oh I can't um
1:19:49
but but there was yeah like if you if you want to enter competition ideally you should get it but then the Warhammer
1:19:55
world I think Warhammer World realistically just might not be big enough anymore no I don't think Warhammer world is big enough anymore by
1:20:02
by so maybe golden demon in the UK they they maybe could just have golden demon
1:20:10
but wammer world's too small MH the issues last year not necessarily were
1:20:17
with golden demon but were with Warhammer Fest and how that was organized so that's Tak a break they
1:20:24
don't want to hold golden demon at Warhammer world so if Fest is taking a break which is always somewhere else now
1:20:30
isn't it yes then golden demon has to take a break as well yes so maybe
1:20:35
they'll only do them at these bigger events yeah and I think it's sad isn't it I think that you
1:20:41
know because you can't know in advance of you know if you like you know take Richard Gray for example he said that
1:20:47
sometimes he starts painting his next Golden Dem and the minute the minute after he's he's been at the last one and
1:20:53
the thing is is if you can't you can't judge them whether you can get a ticket and so you have to you have to go with I
1:20:59
have to start painting this in the hope that I will get a ticket yeah you think it's a it's a real it's a real tough
1:21:05
situation to make a decision on what's going to how it's going to work and um you know and I think yeah it's weird
1:21:11
because the fact that Games Workshop has any space in the building at all the
1:21:18
fact you know that they've got a factory that is also a meeting place for people
1:21:23
in a whole host of different ways is to be commended yeah you know but I think
1:21:29
you know you I am now starting to go now having now been to lvo and having uh
1:21:35
only um a week ago went into Games Workshop on a Sunday and there was a
1:21:42
tournament on and you look at it and you go it's about a 15th of the room that
1:21:50
that 40K was being held on in Al yeah yeah and that's not games workshop's fault the fact that they've got any
1:21:56
space for you to play and some really really pretty boards yeah but go in there and go oh my goodan this is just
1:22:02
like you know what I mean it's GNA I think they're already at the the stage
1:22:08
where Warhammer world is beginning to not be fit for purpose anymore well the
1:22:13
problem being as well there's a thing and you know and the problem I think is is that I think the fact that they can't
1:22:19
make stuff fast enough and also Alo the fact that they can't make Plastics fast
1:22:26
enough and the fact that so many people constantly visit war hammer worlds you can go Warhammer Worlds at 12:00 on a
1:22:33
Wednesday lunchtime and it will still have loads of people in it you go in there and you go well this is meant to
1:22:39
be the Pinnacle of Games Workshop and you can go in there and find loads of
1:22:45
things that aren't available to buy yeah and you go and that you know and in you know in an ideal shop you go well this
1:22:52
is the place where you make it yeah you know what I mean and you go you know you know in the in the ideal version of
1:22:58
Warhammer world you go sorry I was after of this and they go oh is he not one there one second Fred can you bring 10
1:23:04
of them you know 10 minutes later some young some young man will come run a warehouse and just P them over and
1:23:10
they'll on a shelf and you go unrealistically you know I went in uh cuz the the warehouse is now at East
1:23:16
Middle a airport you and you go so now you go um I wouldn't mind one of them
1:23:22
because I wanted the Tauros for uh for uh my Arbiters and um I thought I'll go
1:23:29
in and get one and the guy was like oh we haven't got one yeah but you know phone us up Tuesday we might have one by
1:23:34
then going no I want you to just run off and go and find one you know I mean this the place where it all is you know so um
1:23:41
yeah I think the fact that there is a Warhammer world at all is lovely the museum is very good you know the fact
1:23:48
that he can eat there and all the rest of it can game there and even just walking around the shop there's some beautiful Miniatures to see but it even
1:23:56
that bless it just like their distribution I feel it's starting to Creek yeah yeah I mean the growth is is
1:24:02
is difficult isn't it you you think all the tournaments I think we're spoiled because there's generally nowhere in the
1:24:08
world is running a 900 man fourth person 40K tournament yeah
1:24:14
you know it's not even like there 700s and 600s this is just Elio is Far and
1:24:20
Away oh yeah it it's the exception to the norm isn't it yeah yeah I think LGT
1:24:25
is quite big yeah um down in London but um yeah that's like the biggest
1:24:33
tournament in the world I think isn't it oh God yeah yeah think of all the other rooms doing all of the other games as
1:24:38
well it's just I started chatting someone uh I was like oh what are you here to play and he was like oh the Batman
1:24:44
tournament is that game yeah um yeah cuz they um there's a lot of people walking
1:24:51
around with lot of U Marvel crisis protocol wasn't it lot more of that I seen than I thought there was going to
1:24:57
be I was a bit jealous cuz people were go I was going what are you playing and they going oh I've been in the the Marvel Pro crisis protocol and they go
1:25:04
all right let's have a look and they' open up and there's about six miniers in the Box think I play the wrong game yeah
1:25:11
yeah yeah Isaac's Army be finished for now yeah six six Miniatures yeah yeah
1:25:18
yeah absolutely oh you know well yeah so I I don't know how um I don't really
1:25:25
know how you fix golden demon I think you just have to bite your lip and go well it's all turn every so many turns
1:25:31
and I mean yeah maybe maybe it'll be a i because yeah I think golden demon in the UK is probably taking a break because
1:25:37
Warhammer Fest is taking a break um I I I didn't if it comes back stronger then
1:25:44
great yeah you know maybe well here's a thing is if if we can do golden demon m
1:25:52
at an event that does a bit of everything I Spiel yeah could they're the UK games Expo there you go yeah why
1:26:00
can't why can't um and and to be fair Games Workshop put a fair put a fair bit
1:26:05
of effort into games Expo yeah you know the Terminator get got wheeled out there
1:26:10
as well yeah yeah it's well traveled that Terminator it is well traveled yeah yeah I think but the funny thing is is
1:26:17
that you keep see him turn up and crat you think he just keep striking wouldn't he just so some cones you'll be coming
1:26:25
there thanks everyone see you next week um yeah yeah to be really cool would be
1:26:31
days and days in advance you put the rapid Ingress thing in the ground wouldn't you oh yeah yeah yeah and then
1:26:37
eventually put there but yeah so yeah so they they put a fair showing in it at uh
1:26:44
UK games Expo so yeah maybe why not have golden demon there is
1:26:50
spiel no cuz the Depon is not purely games it's a it's a workshop endorsed event isn't it yeah as is games Expo and
1:27:00
as was lvo yeah you know say you know they're all they're they all make their
1:27:06
presence massively known especially because you know they their shop at alvio dwarfed everything else that was
1:27:12
anywhere near it yeah you know um and I'm sure it'll be very much the
1:27:18
same adepticon in fact it'll probably be the same crew and the same iine so yeah so you think yeah maybe you
1:27:25
know they could uh maybe they they could uh the way to fix it is to go yet it'll
1:27:32
be a a especially because you think it's not like it was it's not like it's short on space as a Bingham games Expo was a
1:27:39
fair old chunk of no it's it is Big isn't it like as far as like the exhibition Halls go for like vendors and
1:27:45
stuff compared to lvo it's it's enormous huge um maybe I don't know how much
1:27:52
space a golden demon takes up well it's I know but they had the going to need a lot of glass cabinets aren't you yes but
1:27:58
they had their um they had the we were in one bit for for games Expo and next
1:28:04
door was where the tournament was going on so maybe you could just go be around the edge of the tournament you thought
1:28:09
maybe yeah maybe maybe that's maybe that's the fix going forward as it goes It goes there
1:28:16
G I imagine I can't imagine that I feel like it has more like
1:28:24
gravitas uh if it's at Fest yeah I do I
1:28:30
don't understand why Fest isn't going to be a yearly thing at one point in time games day as it used to be called was on
1:28:35
every year I imagine Fest will go back to be yearly but I imagine there's a bit of
1:28:42
rejigging and figuring out how to do it because it didn't it didn't it didn't on the Sur work very well did it like Q
1:28:49
simulator wasn't it yeah um which which is quite funny know said I brought up before but you know the amount of people
1:28:55
complaining they never got a chance to have a go at um the new L Leviathan or they waited two hours to play a round of
1:29:01
10th edition yeah and then uh games Expo was still before Leviathan was released
1:29:08
and it was literally like tumble weed you could just wand yeah yeah yeah that and and I guess maybe that's it there's
1:29:15
just less war hammer fans at Expo yeah Lo people you know and you I mean if you
1:29:20
had golden demon there then more people would I guess but yeah yeah well yeah that's it maybe yeah you know maybe
1:29:25
putting one there will bring in more of the other you know you go well I'm going to go and put a miniature in or I want
1:29:31
to go and look at painted GW Miniatures to an extraordinary high standard and maybe then maybe when they're releasing
1:29:38
or showing off their latest game that you can play a verion of more people would be there to play yeah you know cuz
1:29:45
I remember you know they had a uh a lovely young lady in a Games Workshop shirt uh standing at the barriers and I
1:29:53
sort of walked up and sort of stood like I she was queueing up and she went oh no just go up you go
1:30:00
you there only you oh yeah the difference is crazy isn't it yeah oh I
1:30:06
think I may be done y are you done I think I'm done yeah cool in that case then yeah we so we didn't on any level
1:30:14
come to a conclusion as to what I was over transfers well I think we did but it's it's it's incredibly specific yes abely
1:30:23
to the uh individual's situation and I feel like I feel like we've moan terribly about having options for those
1:30:30
po poor Marine players that don't have options yes exactly yeah so I think if if
1:30:36
you're if you're having to make a decision between sculpted and not you're in a privileged position aren't you uh
1:30:42
that you there the if you're having to make a decision between the two don't moan yes yeah yeah that's it yeah yeah
1:30:48
you're in a better situation than lots of other chapters yes absolutely um officially or 3D printed whatever um
1:30:56
don't throw another option on top oh you know just be cool enough to be able to freehand yeah yeah oh no just
1:31:03
scul out green stuff duh right I think B off for this
1:31:10
nonsense yeah um thank you as always to our patrons uh for for answering the
1:31:15
call and uh letting us know your opinions on that as well it's greatly appreciated take and we'll uh we'll see
1:31:21
you next week bye-bye

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